05 GTO after os change
09-03-2018, 08:20 AM
#1
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05 GTO after os change Changed the E40 from a manual trans os to an auto os. Using the manual os, there was no converter lockup, no cruise and the clutch switch had to be pressed to start. Car ran good except for the things listed. After the auto os was installed, at cold idle, the car runs like crap and cannot put it in gear until water temp is over 160 when it goes into closed loop. Then it runs good. Closed loop should be at 131 degrees. Ambient temp shows 30's to 40's when it should be 90's. KOEO, the map reads 14.4. After starting, it reads 57kpa at idle which should be ok. The compare feature was used to make sure everything was the same in the tune after the os was changed. I have the same auto os in my GTO and everything works great. Any ideas ?? Here is the tune and a log. I know he isn't logging much, but maybe you can pinpoint something. Thanks
09-03-2018, 12:41 PM
#3
Did you do a "WRITE ENTIRE" to flash the new O/S onto your E-40? I don't think comparison swapping, or even segment swapping, is going to cut it. I'm subscribed to see how this turns out. When going from a manual to an auto trans, you will have to permanently wire the clutch pedal switch such that the start signal from the ignition can get through the switch to the starter relay. This issue has NOTHING to do with your O/S system change as manual cars are hardwired to have the start signal pass though the clutch switch. I swapped a 6.0L/80E into my 02 Silverado that had 4.3L/5 speed in it from the factory. I had to find, identify, and connect the wires that passed through the original clutch pedal switch to get it to start.
09-03-2018, 05:43 PM
#4
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truckdoug: The computer was sent to a shop that does this, along with a T42 trans control board. The os was supposed to be installed with a GM piece of equipment.
Kawabuggy: See above. My setup is the same. I had a 6 speed manual and swapped to a 4L80E. We both changed the engine harness to an auto version harness from an auto car. When the computer is programmed correctly, the clutch switch wiring is not in the circuit. I did not touch my clutch switch. Everything works correctly. The 4L65 program runs the 80E with the exception of using two relays from PCMof NC for the solenoids that are backwards in the 80E. If you use the manual tune, then you have to wire the clutch switch. Then you have no lockup, or cruise and the speedo is wonky. I just can't figure out the problem he is having with cold idle and the screwy koeo kpa and ambient calc.
Kawabuggy: See above. My setup is the same. I had a 6 speed manual and swapped to a 4L80E. We both changed the engine harness to an auto version harness from an auto car. When the computer is programmed correctly, the clutch switch wiring is not in the circuit. I did not touch my clutch switch. Everything works correctly. The 4L65 program runs the 80E with the exception of using two relays from PCMof NC for the solenoids that are backwards in the 80E. If you use the manual tune, then you have to wire the clutch switch. Then you have no lockup, or cruise and the speedo is wonky. I just can't figure out the problem he is having with cold idle and the screwy koeo kpa and ambient calc.
09-03-2018, 10:07 PM
#5
did you adjust the base running airflow for the automatic when it's in gear?
when my buddy's e38 computer was giving me **** I developed a method of sorts. put it on MAF only (disable VE), disable all closed loop fueling, and do a couple cold starts and log the base airflow from cold. you can make a histogram to make it really easy. Then for in gear I multiply it by 10 to 15 % and observe actual airflow vs commanded. I keep whittling away at that until you can cold fire it and drop it right into gear.
when my buddy's e38 computer was giving me **** I developed a method of sorts. put it on MAF only (disable VE), disable all closed loop fueling, and do a couple cold starts and log the base airflow from cold. you can make a histogram to make it really easy. Then for in gear I multiply it by 10 to 15 % and observe actual airflow vs commanded. I keep whittling away at that until you can cold fire it and drop it right into gear.
09-03-2018, 10:10 PM
#6
and I have had two cars (one is my turbo truck) that won't show MAP in the scanner until the engine is running. Drives me crazy. Its gotta be in the OS, because I can use the exact same config and layout on another vehicle and get 101kPa at KOEO....
or maybe the units is wrong in the channels? 14.4 psi is roughly atmospheric pressure
or maybe the units is wrong in the channels? 14.4 psi is roughly atmospheric pressure
09-04-2018, 06:12 AM
#7
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Yeah, that koeo is confusing. Reads 14.4 and then when started reads in kpa when the engine is running--got to be something not right in the os.
The car I am talking about belongs to a friend and had a T400 in it before and ran great. The 400 was swapped for the 80E along with the engine/trans harness. The 400 was running off the manual os computer because it was a manual valve body. No need for the computer to shift the trans. He installed the 80E and The computer was sent to PCMofNC and they half assed an auto tune into the manual computer OS. The engine and everything ran great, but no cruise, converter lockup and had to wire up a clutch button to start it. Sent it back, got the auto OS installed, Problems started with it running like crap. All the tune is exactly the same as before. Lockup works, cruise works but now has running problems. I have the same setup in my car, swapped from manual to 80E, same E40 and same OS and no problems.
The car I am talking about belongs to a friend and had a T400 in it before and ran great. The 400 was swapped for the 80E along with the engine/trans harness. The 400 was running off the manual os computer because it was a manual valve body. No need for the computer to shift the trans. He installed the 80E and The computer was sent to PCMofNC and they half assed an auto tune into the manual computer OS. The engine and everything ran great, but no cruise, converter lockup and had to wire up a clutch button to start it. Sent it back, got the auto OS installed, Problems started with it running like crap. All the tune is exactly the same as before. Lockup works, cruise works but now has running problems. I have the same setup in my car, swapped from manual to 80E, same E40 and same OS and no problems.
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09-04-2018, 06:39 PM
#8
DW states "The 4L65 program runs the 80E with the exception of using two relays from PCMof NC for the solenoids that are backwards in the 80E." There really is no reason to do this monkey business with the solenoids. You can easily program the T42's to run the 4L80E programming. You can then also run the appropriate DTC's specifically for the 80E.
Also, maybe the trucks are different, but I can tell you that I dropped in a FACTORY PCM & wiring harness from a 2000 Silverado with 5.3L and A4-4L60E into my '02 Silverado and I did have to splice 2 wires together from the factory clutch switch. When the key is in the START position, the signal goes out from the ignition switch, to, and then through, the clutch pedal switch, and then on to the starter relay. There is NOTHING in the tune that could physically allow this wire to jump the switch and start the engine. Maybe the cars are different? In an AUTO truck from the factory, I'm sure the start signal goes from the ignition switch, to the neutral safety switch, then on to the starter relay in the fuse box. In my swap-there is no way for that start signal to get OUT to the neutral safety switch on the side of my trans without splicing those wires. Again, maybe the cars are wired differently.
Truckdoug has given you an excellent way to figure out RAF. The only thing I would add to his statement is that the 10-15% might not be necessary depending on what type of converter you are running. A loose, high-stall, converter may only need an extra 5% when in gear. In that scenario the converter will not drag the engine down much and you won't need that much extra air. If you are running a factory T/C (who does that?) then, most definitely, the 10-15% is a good starting place. Russ K developed a good IDLE Configuration to help you drill down on RAF if you don't want to do it Truckdougs way.
Also, maybe the trucks are different, but I can tell you that I dropped in a FACTORY PCM & wiring harness from a 2000 Silverado with 5.3L and A4-4L60E into my '02 Silverado and I did have to splice 2 wires together from the factory clutch switch. When the key is in the START position, the signal goes out from the ignition switch, to, and then through, the clutch pedal switch, and then on to the starter relay. There is NOTHING in the tune that could physically allow this wire to jump the switch and start the engine. Maybe the cars are different? In an AUTO truck from the factory, I'm sure the start signal goes from the ignition switch, to the neutral safety switch, then on to the starter relay in the fuse box. In my swap-there is no way for that start signal to get OUT to the neutral safety switch on the side of my trans without splicing those wires. Again, maybe the cars are wired differently.
Truckdoug has given you an excellent way to figure out RAF. The only thing I would add to his statement is that the 10-15% might not be necessary depending on what type of converter you are running. A loose, high-stall, converter may only need an extra 5% when in gear. In that scenario the converter will not drag the engine down much and you won't need that much extra air. If you are running a factory T/C (who does that?) then, most definitely, the 10-15% is a good starting place. Russ K developed a good IDLE Configuration to help you drill down on RAF if you don't want to do it Truckdougs way.
09-05-2018, 03:42 PM
#10
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The problems have nothing to do with base running airflow. Everything ran perfect with the T400 and the 4L80 until the OS was changed-- so he would have lockup, cruise and speedo. Changing wires will not work for the E40 and have everything work as stock. You can swap pins in the trans plug to get the solenoids working correctly, but it is a pain. The GTO requires a whole engine/trans harness from an auto car with a T42 to make this work unless you want to manually shift it. Mine was a manual swapped to auto. I have the clutch switch hooked up just like it was when it was manual. With the AUTO OS, it is not in the circuit anymore. Even the auto cars come with the plugs in the wiring harness for the clutch switches. Those plugs come from the body control module and not the engine harness. Somebody didn't do something correct when installing the auto os, because mine works perfect and his doesn't. LOL, I'm not sure why I typed that