WB O2 Purchasing options....
WB O2 Purchasing options.... Im rather interested in purchasing a WB o2 sensor and display for my car. I recently saw a link to a company that will provide a really nice sensor/processor/display package, adn now I cant re-find it. The whole package was around $1032 for everything including DA software and connections for a laptop.
Any significantly better deals? Im a EE, but I have no tools better than a Fluke multi at my disposal.
\chris
Any significantly better deals? Im a EE, but I have no tools better than a Fluke multi at my disposal.
\chris
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... I just "re-found" this one:
http://fjoinc.com/automotive/WBO2details.htm#afrdis
Anything out there that is much better/cheaper?
I would prefer a 1/100ths display, although I dont suppose the system is really that acurrate.
\chris
http://fjoinc.com/automotive/WBO2details.htm#afrdis
Anything out there that is much better/cheaper?
I would prefer a 1/100ths display, although I dont suppose the system is really that acurrate.
\chris
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... If you dont want a display other than the laptop its like $880 and that still includes data logging from FJO. No experience with it yet, had one for about a month. You can make your own for about $250 with no data logging and no display. You have to use a voltmeter to get the voltage and then use a lookup table to convert voltage to afr. Look on http://www.diy-efi.org. They use a ntk wideband sensor which costs about $200 and you need to make a circuit. You could use a datalogging multimeter and you know have an accurate pretty cheap solution.
I did find another company in sweden or something it was about the same price.
Gary
[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: red ws6 99 ]</p>
I did find another company in sweden or something it was about the same price.
Gary
[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: red ws6 99 ]</p>
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... Just my 2 cents, but you REALLY want data logging with the WB O2 set up. You also need to verify that it is in sync, or in real time. I like to make one rpm cell very rich, them see where it turns up in the run you logged. I have not had one that was actually "on time" yet. If you know you made 5600 rpm break point very rich, and it does not show up until 6000 in the log (about par with mine, with a 420/430 rwhp engine) you will know where to make changes with regard to your A/F logs. This is not only way to tune one,ignore the stock O2s fo anything other than fuel trims, the only thing for which they were ever intended.
Good luck, Ed
Good luck, Ed
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... Cool...thanks alot, Ed!
Im gonna be ordering one of these kits very shortly, along with LS1Edit. I like the Vacuum display, because I believe it has facilities for an alarm. Imagine running NO2 when a bad A/F would turn off the system... (just a wild idea).
Thanks for the good idea with the RPM time domain offset...
\chris
Im gonna be ordering one of these kits very shortly, along with LS1Edit. I like the Vacuum display, because I believe it has facilities for an alarm. Imagine running NO2 when a bad A/F would turn off the system... (just a wild idea).
Thanks for the good idea with the RPM time domain offset...
\chris
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... The FJO Kit is a good setup.
I think the A/C pressure circuit is a 0-5v input - at least on lt1 f-bodies. You could use a normal logging tool and include the a/c pressure data in your log - then just load it up in excel, map the trasfer function, and convert it to a/f ratio (or just identify the ac points ahead of time)
this is on a obdI f-body, but I don't imagine you would have lost any sensor inputs; regardless, you could probably find a spare input that you could use? This would help get around the "synch" problem, unless there was a very high latency in the controller itself (which I don't see why their should be).
Chris
Chris
I think the A/C pressure circuit is a 0-5v input - at least on lt1 f-bodies. You could use a normal logging tool and include the a/c pressure data in your log - then just load it up in excel, map the trasfer function, and convert it to a/f ratio (or just identify the ac points ahead of time)
this is on a obdI f-body, but I don't imagine you would have lost any sensor inputs; regardless, you could probably find a spare input that you could use? This would help get around the "synch" problem, unless there was a very high latency in the controller itself (which I don't see why their should be).
Chris
Chris
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From: Atlanta
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... When I had my old 93 Trans Am with a blower and heads, cam, etc. I bought a 4-wire O2 sensor, EGT sensor and a cheap little data acquisition box that would record voltage over time.
You can corralate voltage to a particular A/F mixture or temperature reading (for the EGT).
I think I paid $200 for all three pieces. I ended up just giving it all to the guy I sold the TA to. I'm thinking of trying something like that again.
A true wide band O2 sensor is a 5-wire sensor and are usually accurate from 10:1 to 20:1 A/F.
A 4-wire sensor is actually really accurate too, but usually from like 11:1 to 15:1, which should still be ok.
The only other thing I would need to do is connect this data acquisition jobby to the tach so I can record rpm along with O2 and EGT. That means we would have to figure out what voltage corralates to what rpm. For example maybe 1.1V is 2800rpm and 1.2V is 2850rpm and 1.3V is 2900rpm, who knows??
If anyone can answer that and figure out a good place to tab the tach this may be a doable product and a lot cheaper than other options. Plus programming with an EGT is really kick ***!
You can corralate voltage to a particular A/F mixture or temperature reading (for the EGT).
I think I paid $200 for all three pieces. I ended up just giving it all to the guy I sold the TA to. I'm thinking of trying something like that again.
A true wide band O2 sensor is a 5-wire sensor and are usually accurate from 10:1 to 20:1 A/F.
A 4-wire sensor is actually really accurate too, but usually from like 11:1 to 15:1, which should still be ok.
The only other thing I would need to do is connect this data acquisition jobby to the tach so I can record rpm along with O2 and EGT. That means we would have to figure out what voltage corralates to what rpm. For example maybe 1.1V is 2800rpm and 1.2V is 2850rpm and 1.3V is 2900rpm, who knows??
If anyone can answer that and figure out a good place to tab the tach this may be a doable product and a lot cheaper than other options. Plus programming with an EGT is really kick ***!
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Atlanta
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... Found it. This is what I bought and never used. Not sure about how well it works. Looks like it's accurate from 17:1 to 12.5:1. This is way more accurate than a factory which is a 1 or 2 wire O2 sensor.
http://www.huntleyracing.com/o2sensordatasheet.htm
http://www.huntleyracing.com/o2sensordatasheet.htm
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... I dont think the FJO unit should have to much delay in the rpm or 0-5v datalogging. It sends data at 19200 bps for three channels, which is pretty quick. I did not really want the display since my laptop is pretty small (10" display) and does not take up much space.
Gary
Gary
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From: Marlboro, NY
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... Would it be possible for those people without catalytic converters to use the PCM inputs (rear O2 sensor)for datalogging ability ? The PCM does not have to react to the wideband sensors but should be able to record the voltages. It shouldn't be too hard to hook up the sensors.
[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: 99 WS6 ]</p>
[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: 99 WS6 ]</p>
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... The wideband o2 voltage is from a little over .75 volts at an AFR of 10 and 2.5 volts at an AFR of 15. Most people only really need an AFR between say 11.5-15 which would be around 1.4 volts to 2.55 volts. If you wanted say from 11.7 to 14.7 the range would be 1.5 - to 2.5 volts. I would think that you could just put a resistor in the output (probably a little more complicated than that) and reduce the voltage to 0-1 volts. The reason I say from 0-1 volts, is I believe that is the output of the stock sensor, but I could be wrong.
Each wideband sensor should be aroud $225 if you get them from Honda instead of NTK. I believe NTK charges a little more for the same sensor.
Each wideband sensor should be aroud $225 if you get them from Honda instead of NTK. I believe NTK charges a little more for the same sensor.
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... The only thing so far that I dont like about the FJO kit is that the cable to the sensor is very short probably 3 or 4 feet and that the connectors are already on it. The connector is like 1" so thats a big hole somewhere in the car. I was planning on mounting the box in the glove box but not sure it will be long enough.
Staging Lane
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From: Wall Township, NJ
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... a couple of questions here????
1) would this mount next to the factory o2 sensor?
2) Would you only use one sensor, and if so, does it matter which side it's on?
3) With the wideband o2, can that be unplugged and then plugged into a dyno that supports wideband o2?
4) Is this mainly for WOT A/F readings, I would think that at cruise/part open throttle that this would read 14.7, that is what the computer is trying to maintain anyway?
Thanks
Pat/
1) would this mount next to the factory o2 sensor?
2) Would you only use one sensor, and if so, does it matter which side it's on?
3) With the wideband o2, can that be unplugged and then plugged into a dyno that supports wideband o2?
4) Is this mainly for WOT A/F readings, I would think that at cruise/part open throttle that this would read 14.7, that is what the computer is trying to maintain anyway?
Thanks
Pat/
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: WB O2 Purchasing options.... [quote]Originally posted by pkmoose:
<strong>a couple of questions here????
1) would this mount next to the factory o2 sensor?
2) Would you only use one sensor, and if so, does it matter which side it's on?
3) With the wideband o2, can that be unplugged and then plugged into a dyno that supports wideband o2?
4) Is this mainly for WOT A/F readings, I would think that at cruise/part open throttle that this would read 14.7, that is what the computer is trying to maintain anyway?
Thanks
Pat/</strong><hr></blockquote>
1 and 2) I am not running rear o2 sensors and I will be putting the wideband o2 sensor on the right side (passenger). Due to the dampener in the fuel rail the right side usually gets less fuel than the driver side.
3) If you mean electrically unplugged from the FJO box and electrically plugged into the dyno wideband reader, most likely not. Each sensor type/brand has its own calibration. It may work if they use the same sensor but I would count on it.
4) The wideband should read very close at stoick (14.7) but will show way different below say 13:1. Since the stock cant really read lower than that.
I bought the wideband for several reasons:
1. The nearest dyno is about 3 hours away.
2. Dyno do not fully load the car especially on turbo cars like mine. So you have to guess what your boost and air fuel ratio will be. I dont like guessing.
3. I have a nice straight, but has little rolling hills and has a 6 miles stretch of road that does not get patrolled that I can get the car in the 120-130 mph range without going air born.
So basically a dyno would be waste of time for me.
Gary
<strong>a couple of questions here????
1) would this mount next to the factory o2 sensor?
2) Would you only use one sensor, and if so, does it matter which side it's on?
3) With the wideband o2, can that be unplugged and then plugged into a dyno that supports wideband o2?
4) Is this mainly for WOT A/F readings, I would think that at cruise/part open throttle that this would read 14.7, that is what the computer is trying to maintain anyway?
Thanks
Pat/</strong><hr></blockquote>
1 and 2) I am not running rear o2 sensors and I will be putting the wideband o2 sensor on the right side (passenger). Due to the dampener in the fuel rail the right side usually gets less fuel than the driver side.
3) If you mean electrically unplugged from the FJO box and electrically plugged into the dyno wideband reader, most likely not. Each sensor type/brand has its own calibration. It may work if they use the same sensor but I would count on it.
4) The wideband should read very close at stoick (14.7) but will show way different below say 13:1. Since the stock cant really read lower than that.
I bought the wideband for several reasons:
1. The nearest dyno is about 3 hours away.
2. Dyno do not fully load the car especially on turbo cars like mine. So you have to guess what your boost and air fuel ratio will be. I dont like guessing.
3. I have a nice straight, but has little rolling hills and has a 6 miles stretch of road that does not get patrolled that I can get the car in the 120-130 mph range without going air born.
So basically a dyno would be waste of time for me.
Gary
