#1 cylinder keeps fouling: PLUG pics inside...
08-24-2006, 09:42 AM
#1
#1 cylinder keeps fouling: PLUG pics inside... this is the second time. lasts like 2 weeks. and over that time it gets progressivly worse until the SES is flashing and car wont hardly run. ive had it re-tuned each time after. goes back in tommorrow (friday) for another tune. hes gonna add some more idle air to start with. then then drive around and tweak from there.
why is it always #1? its the first in the fuel system right?
how do the others look. this guys doesnt seem to be the best tuner.. any tips i could give him would help....alot....
here they are, i pulled out the front 4 (there #ed on the porcelin)
why is it always #1? its the first in the fuel system right?
how do the others look. this guys doesnt seem to be the best tuner.. any tips i could give him would help....alot....
here they are, i pulled out the front 4 (there #ed on the porcelin)
08-24-2006, 10:46 AM
#2
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Car appears to be running rich overall. Looks like some blo-by on all the plugs, esp. the #1 plug. Also the left side looks like it's running leaner (hotter) than the right for some reason.
08-24-2006, 10:49 AM
#3
TECH Resident
The tuning probably wont help much with that problem, yes you can play with fueling but it applies for all 8 cyclinders, the fuel trims will get you down to 2 banks of 4. I beleive no matter what yo do with tuning it wont sort out that one cylinder.
Perhaps check for leaking injector, by swapping that injector with one on the opperste site.
Check the coil pack, perhaps swap the coil pack with one on another cylinder, see if the problem moves with it.
could it be the HT leads? Perhaps swap them about to.....
Out of interest have you logged the fuel trims? perhaps its dumping in too much fuel on one side due to a malfunctioning O2?
Perhaps check for leaking injector, by swapping that injector with one on the opperste site.
Check the coil pack, perhaps swap the coil pack with one on another cylinder, see if the problem moves with it.
could it be the HT leads? Perhaps swap them about to.....
Out of interest have you logged the fuel trims? perhaps its dumping in too much fuel on one side due to a malfunctioning O2?
08-24-2006, 11:05 AM
#4
Originally Posted by muncie21
Car appears to be running rich overall. Looks like some blo-by on all the plugs, esp. the #1 plug. Also the left side looks like it's running leaner (hotter) than the right for some reason.
08-24-2006, 11:10 AM
#5
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS 2
im runnin 11:1 comp ratio. would that induce the blow by?
The common causes of oil in the combustion chamber are:
1) worn/bad rings
2) worn valve seals
3) If it's bad enough, the PCV system. Although this typically just tends to oil up your intake and MAF pretty bad first.
08-24-2006, 11:10 AM
#6
Originally Posted by RedWS6 00
The tuning probably wont help much with that problem, yes you can play with fueling but it applies for all 8 cyclinders, the fuel trims will get you down to 2 banks of 4. I beleive no matter what yo do with tuning it wont sort out that one cylinder.
Perhaps check for leaking injector, by swapping that injector with one on the opperste site.
Check the coil pack, perhaps swap the coil pack with one on another cylinder, see if the problem moves with it.
could it be the HT leads? Perhaps swap them about to.....
Out of interest have you logged the fuel trims? perhaps its dumping in too much fuel on one side due to a malfunctioning O2?
Perhaps check for leaking injector, by swapping that injector with one on the opperste site.
Check the coil pack, perhaps swap the coil pack with one on another cylinder, see if the problem moves with it.
could it be the HT leads? Perhaps swap them about to.....
Out of interest have you logged the fuel trims? perhaps its dumping in too much fuel on one side due to a malfunctioning O2?
yeah someone else suggested injector. im running stock injectors at 110%
im gonna try swaping the #1 and #3 injectors.
coil pack ok ill try that after the injector swap.
HT leads? whats that?
yeah ive monitored teh fuel trims for MONTHS (live while driving) cause it was staying maxed out at 25% extra. my 02s act wierd they go dead for like 2 minutes while idle (like when u come to a stop at a light) but then they come right back. i put in two brand new ones. and they did the same thing. so i put the old ones back in. (hey those 02s are expensive)
Last edited by STANG KILLA SS 2; 08-24-2006 at 11:18 AM.
08-24-2006, 11:13 AM
#7
Originally Posted by muncie21
Not by itself, but it could contribute to broken ring lands if it's detonating.
The common causes of oil in the combustion chamber are:
1) worn/bad rings
2) worn valve seals
3) If it's bad enough, the PCV system. Although this typically just tends to oil up your intake and MAF pretty bad first.
The common causes of oil in the combustion chamber are:
1) worn/bad rings
2) worn valve seals
3) If it's bad enough, the PCV system. Although this typically just tends to oil up your intake and MAF pretty bad first.
the valve seals have less than 2500 miles on them. (only 90% sure on this one)
i have a catch can on the PCV....
Trending Topics
08-24-2006, 11:26 AM
#8
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The tune is off for sure. my concern now would be the fuel trims at 25%. If you never got that squared away it sounds like a possible vacuum leak somewhere or a bad IFR table thats out of calibration.
Its easy to pull the fuel rail to check for a malfunctioning injector. And yes they clip in like was asked on the PM.
Its easy to pull the fuel rail to check for a malfunctioning injector. And yes they clip in like was asked on the PM.
08-24-2006, 11:33 AM
#10
great info guys. im writing all this down and gonna take it to the tuner.
mike so no tools are required for the injector swap? u dont have to unbolt the rail? all my tools are at the perents house only brought home the rachet/socket to pull the plugs.
mike so no tools are required for the injector swap? u dont have to unbolt the rail? all my tools are at the perents house
only brought home the rachet/socket to pull the plugs.
08-24-2006, 11:44 AM
#11
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS 2
great info guys. im writing all this down and gonna take it to the tuner.
mike so no tools are required for the injector swap? u dont have to unbolt the rail? all my tools are at the perents house only brought home the rachet/socket to pull the plugs.
mike so no tools are required for the injector swap? u dont have to unbolt the rail? all my tools are at the perents house
only brought home the rachet/socket to pull the plugs. 
08-24-2006, 07:16 PM
#15
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Central Florida
Posts: 12,604
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
They do pull out but if the O-ring has crusted up then it
may have to be overpowered. Try pulling whilst doing a
bit of wobble about the axis. If the O-rings are stuck that
way then you want a pack of new ones, top & bottom
I expect. Helped a dude swap a set a while back and a
lot of the O-rings were chunked when we got them out.
Use Vaseline when you go to put it back.
Supposedly older LS1s had a cylinder #1 overbore problem
that related to excessive "piston slap". Or maybe that was
all smoke. Maybe it doesn't relate to a fresh shortblock
but if it's a mystery core and honed instead of bored over,
who knows? Anyway see if you can tell about the fouling,
whether it's oil or more like varnish (fuel).
A consistent misfire problem can make a lot of unburnt
fuel and that could be lean as well as over-rich. Lean
misfire from a bad injector is probably more likely than
rich misfire. Have you been doing any logging, see
any peculiar misfires, KR problems? Similarly an ignition
problem that fails to fire (maybe at WOT / high MAP)
could make for a lot of fuel sitting around in the hole.
may have to be overpowered. Try pulling whilst doing a
bit of wobble about the axis. If the O-rings are stuck that
way then you want a pack of new ones, top & bottom
I expect. Helped a dude swap a set a while back and a
lot of the O-rings were chunked when we got them out.
Use Vaseline when you go to put it back.
Supposedly older LS1s had a cylinder #1 overbore problem
that related to excessive "piston slap". Or maybe that was
all smoke. Maybe it doesn't relate to a fresh shortblock
but if it's a mystery core and honed instead of bored over,
who knows? Anyway see if you can tell about the fouling,
whether it's oil or more like varnish (fuel).
A consistent misfire problem can make a lot of unburnt
fuel and that could be lean as well as over-rich. Lean
misfire from a bad injector is probably more likely than
rich misfire. Have you been doing any logging, see
any peculiar misfires, KR problems? Similarly an ignition
problem that fails to fire (maybe at WOT / high MAP)
could make for a lot of fuel sitting around in the hole.
08-24-2006, 07:16 PM
#16
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS 2
i cant get teh #1 injector out ahhh ive got the rail off, and both clips removed. ive tryed pulling (violently), unscrewing.. it wont BUDGE! wtf? how do these come out?
My concern is it does resemble some oil but without smelling it you cant really speculate. Id say the injector is pissed and when they fail they do fail in the open position. They are fail safe in that manner.
08-24-2006, 08:05 PM
#17
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jimmyblue
They do pull out but if the O-ring has crusted up then it
may have to be overpowered. Try pulling whilst doing a
bit of wobble about the axis. If the O-rings are stuck that
way then you want a pack of new ones, top & bottom
I expect. Helped a dude swap a set a while back and a
lot of the O-rings were chunked when we got them out.
Use Vaseline when you go to put it back.
Supposedly older LS1s had a cylinder #1 overbore problem
that related to excessive "piston slap". Or maybe that was
all smoke. Maybe it doesn't relate to a fresh shortblock
but if it's a mystery core and honed instead of bored over,
who knows? Anyway see if you can tell about the fouling,
whether it's oil or more like varnish (fuel).
A consistent misfire problem can make a lot of unburnt
fuel and that could be lean as well as over-rich. Lean
misfire from a bad injector is probably more likely than
rich misfire. Have you been doing any logging, see
any peculiar misfires, KR problems? Similarly an ignition
problem that fails to fire (maybe at WOT / high MAP)
could make for a lot of fuel sitting around in the hole.
may have to be overpowered. Try pulling whilst doing a
bit of wobble about the axis. If the O-rings are stuck that
way then you want a pack of new ones, top & bottom
I expect. Helped a dude swap a set a while back and a
lot of the O-rings were chunked when we got them out.
Use Vaseline when you go to put it back.
Supposedly older LS1s had a cylinder #1 overbore problem
that related to excessive "piston slap". Or maybe that was
all smoke. Maybe it doesn't relate to a fresh shortblock
but if it's a mystery core and honed instead of bored over,
who knows? Anyway see if you can tell about the fouling,
whether it's oil or more like varnish (fuel).
A consistent misfire problem can make a lot of unburnt
fuel and that could be lean as well as over-rich. Lean
misfire from a bad injector is probably more likely than
rich misfire. Have you been doing any logging, see
any peculiar misfires, KR problems? Similarly an ignition
problem that fails to fire (maybe at WOT / high MAP)
could make for a lot of fuel sitting around in the hole.
remember his Ltrims i think he mentioned were pegged at 25% on this side.
I suspected a vacuum leak but theres only some things we can do here. Speculate.
08-24-2006, 09:48 PM
#18
ok i got the #1 plug cleaned and put back in, and the others too. i swaped the #1 and #3 injector. put it all back together. drove off didnt the EXACT same thing right away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
missing. sounds like a diesel at times. has a "rythem" while cruising with a miss every 2-3 seconds. SES light flashes at low rpms and stop lights, when it loads up i guess. **** im so pissed with this car. ive been trying to get it track ready for YEARS now... still i got ****. im anxious to see if #3 is fouled. im not sure i should even take it to the tuners tommorrow. sounds like i got physical probs.
also i noticed just before i got back home while accellerating when it hit about 2100 rpm the car jumped and ludged forward like ya just hit a 150 shot. only did that twice.
vacuum leak? i broke the car in for 2000 miles. ran great on break in tune. well not great but it never missed. or fouled.
missing. sounds like a diesel at times. has a "rythem" while cruising with a miss every 2-3 seconds. SES light flashes at low rpms and stop lights, when it loads up i guess. **** im so pissed with this car. ive been trying to get it track ready for YEARS now... still i got ****. im anxious to see if #3 is fouled. im not sure i should even take it to the tuners tommorrow. sounds like i got physical probs.
also i noticed just before i got back home while accellerating when it hit about 2100 rpm the car jumped and ludged forward like ya just hit a 150 shot. only did that twice.
vacuum leak? i broke the car in for 2000 miles. ran great on break in tune. well not great but it never missed. or fouled.
08-25-2006, 09:11 AM
#20
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 5,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dynocar
I would cancel the dyno appointment and do a compression and leakdown test first. That #1 plug's porceleon looks too shiney to be fuel fouled.