My thoughts on the G8 Firehawk issue...
09-30-2008, 11:14 AM
#21
TECH Regular
The only good thing going for Pontiac is the G8 and the turbo Solstice. Other than that, Pontiac is in ruins. SLP just tarnished the Pontiac name even more.
Is it not to late to listen to the projected consumers and change the name away from Firehawk? Your potential buyers are saying we wont buy your product because of name of it. It would be a very simple fix.
Is it not to late to listen to the projected consumers and change the name away from Firehawk? Your potential buyers are saying we wont buy your product because of name of it. It would be a very simple fix.
09-30-2008, 01:35 PM
#22
Wow, a name change is all we're asking for. I really don't see what the big deal is. "Firehawk" doesn't make any sense on a "G8" and a simple name change will increase your support ten fold from just about every performance car group. It's really not that hard to comprehend and I really can't believe the change hasn't already been made. Some people have little to no common sense or are just plain stubborn (especially when challenged or attacked on one of their ideas).
09-30-2008, 01:48 PM
#23
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personal assistant, nice Tony, I've been active running boards over the years long enough to konw exactly what is going on. Dont paint me as that.
Here's my problem. It's got nothing to do with your opinions. You went and pimped the story to magazine sites. That was over the line.
Fact is the story didnt even break on this board. Someone saw it posted somewhere else and didnt have the courtesy to link back to the original source. Do your homework if you want to play the magazine game.
From an outsider it sure looks like nothing more than a publicity stunt to drive up traffic to their site. Mission accomplished. There are now twice the number of views to that thread than there were ever Firehawks built.
Here's my problem. It's got nothing to do with your opinions. You went and pimped the story to magazine sites. That was over the line.
Fact is the story didnt even break on this board. Someone saw it posted somewhere else and didnt have the courtesy to link back to the original source. Do your homework if you want to play the magazine game.
From an outsider it sure looks like nothing more than a publicity stunt to drive up traffic to their site. Mission accomplished. There are now twice the number of views to that thread than there were ever Firehawks built.
09-30-2008, 02:26 PM
#24
Now you are creating lies. I never contacted ANY magazine sites. We have over 100,000 visitors per day here, any one of them (or several) must have done that. Here is another FACT: Quite a few media types frequent this site daily. Not many other GM performance communities out there that are this active. I did post the links on some enthusiast message boards that I am active on, just to get some more non-LS1Tech feedback. I wanted to see this "3 to 1 positive response" claim that SLP had mentioned. Even on those other sites (I posted links to them) it was about 5 to 1 negative response to the idea of using the "Firehawk" name.
As for the "magazine game", I write and shoot for several of them. Never contacted any of them about this thread. LS1Tech does not NEED the extra publicity, the entire GM performance enthusiast world knows who we are. A "Firehawk" G8 isn't required to get attention for us. We've already gotten enough attention here, and you don't see 100,000 views on that thread do you? The thread is a few days old, but we do not have several hundred thousands of views there. That means only a tiny fraction of our immense visitation even took a look at that thread. You didn't put a door ding in our normal visitation here, so don't flatter yourself.
You are correct, you are an outsider. An outsider today who seems to come here and create lies about me and try to discredit my reputation. Someone who knows ZERO about what goes on with this site, or the financials involved within it.
Don't like my personal assistant comment? Feel free to do your own search on previous threads. You might as well be Scotts appointment secretary and SLP's event cheerleader. You painted yourself here. I was being civil just fine until you came here and began making up stories and getting personal with me.
As for the "magazine game", I write and shoot for several of them. Never contacted any of them about this thread. LS1Tech does not NEED the extra publicity, the entire GM performance enthusiast world knows who we are. A "Firehawk" G8 isn't required to get attention for us. We've already gotten enough attention here, and you don't see 100,000 views on that thread do you? The thread is a few days old, but we do not have several hundred thousands of views there. That means only a tiny fraction of our immense visitation even took a look at that thread. You didn't put a door ding in our normal visitation here, so don't flatter yourself.
You are correct, you are an outsider. An outsider today who seems to come here and create lies about me and try to discredit my reputation. Someone who knows ZERO about what goes on with this site, or the financials involved within it.
Don't like my personal assistant comment? Feel free to do your own search on previous threads. You might as well be Scotts appointment secretary and SLP's event cheerleader. You painted yourself here. I was being civil just fine until you came here and began making up stories and getting personal with me.
Last edited by Nine Ball; 09-30-2008 at 02:32 PM.
09-30-2008, 03:04 PM
#25
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Yeah, all those negative responses are from people just trying to drive traffic to this board. Please.
If Tony weren't a Firehawk owner and didn't have some kind of passion directed towards the Firehawk f-body, then he wouldn't be active in that and every other thread about the Firehawk G8. I dont' agree with some of the things said and done though. While I think Tony's sig is funny, I don't think it's in good taste. Especially since SLP is s sponsor on this site. As an admin, it's kind of like a slap to the face of SLP. It's fine to let the members and everyone voice their opinions but when you start to cross the line between criticism and bashing, expecially when dealing with a site sponsor, then you need to re-evaluate the situation. I think Tony is letting his passion and emotion for the Firehawk get carried away.
Chris, I don't think it's any place of yours to bring up what he might have received from the sale of the site. It's not yours or anyone elses business and it doesn't have anything to do with this car. Your posts should have been sent in a pm and not put out for everyone to see. This thread has become a Chris vs. Tony battle and I'm sure that's not what Scott wanted when he posted this.
I don't like the decision to call this car Firehawk and I don't agree with some of the people that posted in that thread because they responded in an extremely immature manner. I do understand why SLP is doing this but I don't have to like it. If the car is a hit, then great. We will all look back and say that it was a good decision to name this car Firehawk. As a former Firehawk owner, I will still feel saddened to see the G8 carry the name though. That's just my personal opinion. I'm not going to bash SLP for doing this and I really hope it works out well for them.
Last edited by Morpheus; 09-30-2008 at 03:15 PM.
09-30-2008, 03:10 PM
#26
Firehawk was a tire. Comp TA was a tire. SLP used both as cars.
I just don't get the anger, maybe its because it is a better Firehawk?
09-30-2008, 03:17 PM
#27
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because it's a horrible name for a 4 door sedan poised to compete against BMW's and Mercedes....
F-body heritage, aside it just doesn't fit the car. It's not even backed by Firestone as you pointed out so why does it need the Firehawk name?
It's SLP's name now and they're using it as a money stamp.
F-body heritage, aside it just doesn't fit the car. It's not even backed by Firestone as you pointed out so why does it need the Firehawk name?
It's SLP's name now and they're using it as a money stamp.
09-30-2008, 03:18 PM
#28
First off all I can say is wow, I dont even know where to start.
Scott I think you have one of two issues...one you really dont know what was going on and was just responding on the basis of what you were told, or two you are blinded by your (or GMs) desperate interest in this being a success. I think most likely the former. First off as its been said a thousand time no one is upset with the fact that SLP is tuning a G8 to be as good as it can possibly be...the outrage is over the use of the "Firehawk" name in a way a lot of us doesnt feel doesnt justice to it and is in appropriate. With that said what made me so upset on the issue...and what you haven't seen because its been deleted off of every board is Dave Hamburgers first post on the subject to "us". In his first response (and I am not quoting because I dont have the exact words he used) he said that basically...the announcement of the car had received nothing but glowing praise from the entire automotive community with the exception of a very small number of former Firehawk owners. But that didnt matter because we weren't the target of SLPs market with this car so our opinions were basically meaningless. Further more he went on to say in the same post that the little "R" beside the Firehawk name meant SLP owned it and they could do what ever they wanted with it. Then the next day after things had started to blow up over it he came back and apologized for his tone in the email and said he had driven all night and was tired because he phone had been ringing all night with calls from furious Firehawk owners.
That brings me back to what you said....basically that WE as a F-body community owe Dave and SLP a debt of gratitude for all he has done for us....what???? Are you serious???? How about the debt of gratitude he owes us for making him and his family rich over the years? What about the debt of gratitude he owes us for keeping the "Firehawk" name plate a live for the last 6 years since one has been produced by religiously maintaining these cars like we have...because had it not been for that "the valuable asset" (as he described it) of the Firehawk name would have been worthless. But even if you dont to go so far as to say he owes us a debt of gratitude dont you think he at least owes us enough respect to at least act like our opinion matters and not to talk to us like we are usless to him now? Again thats the point that infuriated me about this whole thing.
As for comparing the V6 G8 firehawk to a GNX....I dont even know what to say. You should have used the Turbo TA instead...at least it would be like comparing a real Firehawk with a G8 firehawk.
Chris...I dont know what Tony had to do with contacting any magazines, but I can assure you I emailed everyone I could think of and sent them a link to that post (a long with encouraging everyone else to as well.) And I can assure you I have no financial interest at all in it! So why did I do it you ask....because Dave kept saying that the response is overwhelmingly positive and I knew for a fact thats what he would say to every magazine he talked to about the car...so I just wanted to make sure they knew the truth!
Scott I think you have one of two issues...one you really dont know what was going on and was just responding on the basis of what you were told, or two you are blinded by your (or GMs) desperate interest in this being a success. I think most likely the former. First off as its been said a thousand time no one is upset with the fact that SLP is tuning a G8 to be as good as it can possibly be...the outrage is over the use of the "Firehawk" name in a way a lot of us doesnt feel doesnt justice to it and is in appropriate. With that said what made me so upset on the issue...and what you haven't seen because its been deleted off of every board is Dave Hamburgers first post on the subject to "us". In his first response (and I am not quoting because I dont have the exact words he used) he said that basically...the announcement of the car had received nothing but glowing praise from the entire automotive community with the exception of a very small number of former Firehawk owners. But that didnt matter because we weren't the target of SLPs market with this car so our opinions were basically meaningless. Further more he went on to say in the same post that the little "R" beside the Firehawk name meant SLP owned it and they could do what ever they wanted with it. Then the next day after things had started to blow up over it he came back and apologized for his tone in the email and said he had driven all night and was tired because he phone had been ringing all night with calls from furious Firehawk owners.
That brings me back to what you said....basically that WE as a F-body community owe Dave and SLP a debt of gratitude for all he has done for us....what???? Are you serious???? How about the debt of gratitude he owes us for making him and his family rich over the years? What about the debt of gratitude he owes us for keeping the "Firehawk" name plate a live for the last 6 years since one has been produced by religiously maintaining these cars like we have...because had it not been for that "the valuable asset" (as he described it) of the Firehawk name would have been worthless. But even if you dont to go so far as to say he owes us a debt of gratitude dont you think he at least owes us enough respect to at least act like our opinion matters and not to talk to us like we are usless to him now? Again thats the point that infuriated me about this whole thing.
As for comparing the V6 G8 firehawk to a GNX....I dont even know what to say. You should have used the Turbo TA instead...at least it would be like comparing a real Firehawk with a G8 firehawk.
Chris...I dont know what Tony had to do with contacting any magazines, but I can assure you I emailed everyone I could think of and sent them a link to that post (a long with encouraging everyone else to as well.) And I can assure you I have no financial interest at all in it! So why did I do it you ask....because Dave kept saying that the response is overwhelmingly positive and I knew for a fact thats what he would say to every magazine he talked to about the car...so I just wanted to make sure they knew the truth!
Last edited by 97ramsst; 09-30-2008 at 03:25 PM.
09-30-2008, 03:19 PM
#29
LS1Tech Co-Founder
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I think what folks sometimes miss is the opportunity to get real time feedback on here about upcoming cars. I remember when Art Hyde from Ford would post on the Corral, it was pretty cool.
Everytime I pass a G8 on the highway, I think to myself, what does it need to get my Bimmer or G35 sedan friends to say "Hey that's a nice car, and dang you just put 6 cars on me."
John
Everytime I pass a G8 on the highway, I think to myself, what does it need to get my Bimmer or G35 sedan friends to say "Hey that's a nice car, and dang you just put 6 cars on me."
John
09-30-2008, 03:33 PM
#30
Firehawk was a tire. Comp TA was a tire. SLP used both as cars.
I just don't get the anger, maybe its because it is a better Firehawk?
09-30-2008, 03:35 PM
#31
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As a current G8 owner and long time Pontiac fan, I too disagree with the name FIREHAWK being associated with the G8. Have faith in your corporate name and your mods by creating a new, unique name for this special edition G8...The idea of the mods to the car and even offering a "special edition" G8 is a brilliant idea. I just agree with most on this board: choose a name other than Firehawk, please. I hate when names of vehicles are shared. especially special edition vehicles. Just one Pontiac fan's opinion...
09-30-2008, 04:03 PM
#32
If you have to ask this, I have to ask if you are even a true car enthusiast. It is not ruining the Firebird. It is ruining the legacy and history of the Firebird. The Firehawk is well known as the top of the line Firebird. It has 1000s of fans because of what it is. Think back on several other iconic cars of past eras that had unique names given to them. How about the Boss Mustang? Would you think a Boss Fusion would be welcomed by the Mustang crowd? Even if the Fusion was faster than the original Boss Mustang? Be realistic here, you know the outcome if that happened.
The Firehawk Firebird came with Firehawk tires, that is true. It was not, however, a "Firestone Firehawk Edition Firebird". SLP gained the rights to use the word Firehawk on those cars. The tires were standard equipment, this wasn't a tire brand special edition car. Will the G8 use Firestone Firehawk tires? Under your assumption, it better.
Better performance? Maybe. But, that isn't the issue here. The use of the name is what is what we disagree with. This car could bust off 9 second 1/4-mile times, seat 12 people, get 50 mpg, and look cooler than a Lamborghini. It still wouldn't be a "Firehawk" to me, or the majority of the Firebird (and f-body) enthusiasts. Gauging by the response on various other non-GM message boards, they also agree that this use of the name is a poor decision.
The Firehawk Firebird came with Firehawk tires, that is true. It was not, however, a "Firestone Firehawk Edition Firebird". SLP gained the rights to use the word Firehawk on those cars. The tires were standard equipment, this wasn't a tire brand special edition car. Will the G8 use Firestone Firehawk tires? Under your assumption, it better.
Better performance? Maybe. But, that isn't the issue here. The use of the name is what is what we disagree with. This car could bust off 9 second 1/4-mile times, seat 12 people, get 50 mpg, and look cooler than a Lamborghini. It still wouldn't be a "Firehawk" to me, or the majority of the Firebird (and f-body) enthusiasts. Gauging by the response on various other non-GM message boards, they also agree that this use of the name is a poor decision.
To me, Firehawk wasn't the top of the line Firebird. In fact, I thought it was a bad idea when SLP started putting Firehawk on the Trans Am as it was always on the Formula. I thought that "ruined" it by slapping that on it. Strayed away from the concept, IMHO.
Either way, it doesn't matter. Dave already said its a done deal. I do hope it does have Firestone tires as that was what the program was originally. That would keep the theme so to speak.
Difference of opinions has nothing to do with being a car guy...
09-30-2008, 05:55 PM
#35
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I know Scott is a busy guy and all, but I for one will be amazed if he (reads and then) posts in this thread again.
I have a G8, have owned 4 f-bodies, attended several national f-body events, am a member of a local f-body club and I am simply appalled at the reuse of the Firehawk name on this upcoming model.
SLP is getting flak from this decision, because of this decision. Period. It doesn't matter to us who would have been charged with outfitting the car, they would have been dealt the same hand.
The name sucks for this application. Why is that so difficult to understand?
I have a G8, have owned 4 f-bodies, attended several national f-body events, am a member of a local f-body club and I am simply appalled at the reuse of the Firehawk name on this upcoming model.
SLP is getting flak from this decision, because of this decision. Period. It doesn't matter to us who would have been charged with outfitting the car, they would have been dealt the same hand.
The name sucks for this application. Why is that so difficult to understand?
09-30-2008, 07:19 PM
#38
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Fbodfather 
and ChrisL.
SLP is the one that dropped a turd into the punch bowl. Period. Now "everyone" can't imagine or "doesn't understand" how the punch drinkers are reacting. Surely, since the punch drinkers have had a SLP glass in the past without a turd, they should overlook this small floater and be appreciative of the effort put forth into the new turd punch. Drink away you ingrates, it will be good for you!
But, the punch drinkers aren't buying.....so you guys show up and want to blame Tony and John for pointing out the turd to give SLP some political cover....but they didn't point it out....it was obvious, as turds in a punch bowl generally are......
and ChrisL.SLP is the one that dropped a turd into the punch bowl. Period. Now "everyone" can't imagine or "doesn't understand" how the punch drinkers are reacting. Surely, since the punch drinkers have had a SLP glass in the past without a turd, they should overlook this small floater and be appreciative of the effort put forth into the new turd punch. Drink away you ingrates, it will be good for you!
But, the punch drinkers aren't buying.....so you guys show up and want to blame Tony and John for pointing out the turd to give SLP some political cover....but they didn't point it out....it was obvious, as turds in a punch bowl generally are......
09-30-2008, 07:37 PM
#39
So who is SLP going to call next.........ed pepper?
Scott S., thanks for taking the time to read the G8 post and missing the entire gist of what was being said from the 'tech community as well as other communities on other boards.
SLP G8 = Good, SLP G8 Firehawk = BAD.....now you get it.
SLP go to your rolodex and look up some more #'s to call........this sure helped your cause a ton
Scott S., thanks for taking the time to read the G8 post and missing the entire gist of what was being said from the 'tech community as well as other communities on other boards.
SLP G8 = Good, SLP G8 Firehawk = BAD.....now you get it.
SLP go to your rolodex and look up some more #'s to call........this sure helped your cause a ton
