My apologies to most of you -- I don't mean this to turn into a rant - but it will......please forgive me........

Here goes:

A fellow enthusiast told me about a thread on this site -- seems that several people were taking SLP ‘to task’ over their press release on the new G8- Firehawk.

I had a hard time believing this -- after all, I think most people on this site are performance car enthusiasts -- and are looking for ‘something special’ in their driving machine.

I had a hard time believing this -- esp. after the G8 received accolades from the motoring press -- one magazine stating in so many words that the G8 should be competing with the BMW 5 series -- not the 3 series………

I had a hard time believing that people would question the dedication (and track record) of SLP’s men and women -- to take a great product -- and make it even moreso. (no -- they’re not perfect - but then, who is?)

I couldn’t believe that some questioned that this would affect the resale value of their Firebird Firehawks……or that this would ‘dilute’ the Firehawk name.

And I couldn’t believe that people were willing to boycott SLP -


SLP…….the company that took the Firebird and Camaro to new levels that still dominate the track……

SLP……the same company that has thrown how many “Owner Appreciation Days’ at no cost to their customers??…..(show me other companies that do that……)

SLP……..the company that validated their second sticker program to exacting GM standards…….and made the Firehawk a legend………..


Yes -- we’re all entitled to our opinions………

……..but TWO death threats? --

……………and someone posting David Hamburger’s personal contact information on the internet?

For once I’m ashamed of our community.

People!! -- I can understand that we will never agree on some things -- but the death threats and posting personal information is way past the line of decency……and I call on the moderators to ban -- permanently -- these people if they are found out.


Yes -- my post is going to upset some - - so be it.

It upsets me to have to write this.

I offer you the following for consideration:

The Pontiac G8 is an automobile that has been engineered and tested worldwide - from Australia and New Zealand -- to Sweden, Germany, France, Canada, the United States -- It shows that GM can, indeed, compete worldwide -- and further, it gives us (that’s you and me…) something we’ve been demanding for a long time -- a perfomance oriented RWD sedan with a muscular V8 engine.

Ed and Dave Hamburger looked at this vehicle - and realized that there are some things SLP can do to improve the car -- to make it faster -- and to make it more ‘desirable’ -- and ‘exclusive’ --and to put a legendary nameplate on it -- that honors the original Firehawk.

(did anyone who is criticizing this ever go and actually LOOK at the registrations for coupes in the United States? Did they note that the coupe market continues to shrink simply because people want more ‘usefulness’ in their daily driver?) I’ll never say ‘never’ because ‘never’ is a long time….but with the economy and the auto industry where it is today, I would not encourage you to ‘hold out’ for a Firebird-based Firehawk anytime soon……in the future? Perhaps…….but not anytime in the immediate future.

I very much remember how there was a great ‘caterwalling’ when Chevrolet announced we were going to produce the TrailBlazer SS. “Blasphemy!!!” cried some. And yet we sell a lot of them…to the performance community!

I note that one person bashes GM and talks about our having to close the Corvette plant for a week -- the first this has ever happened due to sales slowdown -- nothing could be further from the truth. The Corvette plants have had many down-weeks over the 50+ year run…..esp. during the C1, C2, and C4 era. We are, at this point in time, wisely managing our inventory.

Another talks about how Chevrolet has ruined the SS image by putting the nameplate (my initials, by the way!………) on so many cars and trucks. Yet I question how much history that person has studied -- because a great number of Impala SS’ in the 1960s were built with in-line 6 cylinder engines! Many more were built with the 283 and 327 engine -- rather than the fabled 396, 427, and 454. I’m not saying we need to do it again -- and in fact, you’ll note that we’ve placed the “Sport” name on the Equinox rather than the SS -- and we placed the “Sport” name on the naturally aspirated Cobalt. (and don’t tell me that the Supercharged Cobalt SS does not deserve the SS nomenclature -- because I’ll take you to a track and shame you.)

Then there were the grave concerns about a V6 Firehawk……..does anyone remember the legendary Buick GNXs???? You do recall that they’re a 6 cylinder, right?

I would be the first to call Ed and Dave personally and discourage (in very strong terms) if they were to decide to build a G8 Firehawk that did not deserve the nameplate. (no performance and no handling improvements….) But frankly, I believe SLP has proven since 1992 that they can “Deliver the Goods.”

What I’m asking is this:

>First and foremost -- keep it civil. Many of you’ve heard me say that one of the best things about owning a Firebird or Camaro is ‘the friendships!’ -- remember -- the very name “Camaro” means “friend, pal, or comrade.” It’s OK to disagree - but let’s keep it civil……..

>Second -- keep an open mind. SLP is not going back and ‘converting’ Firebirds to Firehawks -- as some other ‘performance’ companies have done. They are taking a world-class sedan -- one that can compete on its own with some cars costing much more -- and making it even better…….for all of us to look at and consider as a future automobile for our garages.

>Third -- to most of you -- I understand the emotion and the passion that these great cars (Camaro and Firebird) can instill -- I’ve been living with that passion since the fall of 1966.…and for that passion and emotion -- I thank you. To the two persons who have made death threats --(regardless of whether they were seriously meant or not…) I really don’t know what to say to you other than I hope you’ll favor another brand and leave our community. That’s hard for me to type -- but a few people can ruin a great community.

In closing: A message to the men and women of SLP -- THANK YOU -- for all you have done for the Camaro and Firebird. You took great cars and made them even greater. You were this product planner’s dream come true. THANK YOU for all you’ve done -- and for what you continue to do for the enthusiast community. We are some of the toughest customers out there! Good luck with the new G8 and you have my encouragement!


Respectfully,

Scott

 

Scott, you are the Camaro Brand Manager, and the "F-body Father" to all of here. But, after reading what you just posted above, it is painfully obvious that you didn't bother to even read that G8 Firehawk thread. If you had, you might understand why we were so disappointed with SLP at this moment.

>First -- we can keep things civil. We have done our part to delete/edit some of the more offensive replies. Never saw any death threats that you speak of. I agree those members should be banned permanently, if I knew who did it.

>Second -- The "Firehawk" is a legendary Firebird. It is known as the best of the best Firebird. These cars are rare and sought after. The name was built on the Firebird legacy, it was never a "brand" as SLP now refers to it. If it were a "brand" then how come they didn't slap it on the GTO? Excuses say that they are using it since the Firebird is discontinued. Well, the GTO would have also been in that excuse criteria. How about the Solstice?

>Third -- The G8 targets the performance sedan market. They obviously wanted to go head to head in performance with BMW and other notable examples. Magazines and TV writers praised the G8 for accomplishing this, and doing so for less money. Great stuff. So, why slap a 1980's looking Miami Vice logo on the side, some hood stripes, spoiler, and other boy-racer type stuff on an otherwise professional looking and classy sedan? Was it to attract the NASCAR crowd? No, it was hopefully to attract our lowly f-body crowd, since we are the only ones who recognize "FIREHAWK". But again, SLP slapped us in the face by saying that our group doesn't fit their target buyer profile. The very group that helped grow their company. What an insult. Those of us that bought new 4th gens are now 10-15 yrs older. We ARE the demographic that buys 4-door cars now. I own an '08 CTS myself. Probably buy a G8 GXP next.

>Fourth -- We have stated this 100s of times already. We are HAPPY that SLP is offering a modified G8. NOBODY is against that. We are ONLY disappointed that they are hoping to rely on using the "Firehawk" logo to carry the marketing of this car. The car should have its own identity and carry itself based on performance. It shouldn't need a chessy script logo designed for a 1992 Formula on the doors. The "target buyer" that SLP claims to be shooting for doesn't even care if it says "Firehawk" on it. These buyers just want performance and enhanced appearance mods. The use of the word "Firehawk" isn't about being worthy or not. It is simply about relying on some poor marketing idea that will fail. SLP is going to alienate the TRUE Firehawk fans and most of the performance enthusiasts by using this name. Had they simply named it the SLP G8, NOBODY would be offended. They would sell MORE cars.

>Fifth -- This has nothing to do with "SS" cars. The SS logo has been whored out since the 1960s, just like you stated. Malibu Maxx SS anyone?

 

You make plenty of valid points. But one thing still remains...They could of just thought of a different name.

 

Scott, didn't any of the people from GM learn the first time from the GTO fiasco?

 

Jesus... just how much did SLP pay for the rights to the Firehawk name?? It must of been a ton because everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that we (your potential customers) want only the name changed and NOTHING ELSE.

 

I never saw death threats or personal info posted. Read the thread man and you'll see that we are pissed about the use of the name firehawk on a non firebird. Make sense?

 

There was at least one violent threat that I saw and many posts that were indicating violent acts towards either SLP or Dave. I have asked everyone, repeatedly, along with at least 3 other staff members and 2 admins, to cool the **** down.

We have taken action against the users that chose to act in poor taste and judgment. I did not see any personal info posted. If there was, I do not believe it was done here. And I will reiterate that we will take the proper action against anyone who cannot handle posting a mature reply, in this thread or any other, period.

 

LOL at comparing a Firehawk to a Buick GNX to justify a six banger version.

Two totally different cars from different eras. Not to mention the Buick came with a turbo.

Just saying.

And just to add... this streak of extreme crap that I am witnessing on behalf of Street Legal "but we consulted the enthusiasts on firehawk.org" Performance is the exact reason why I'm buying a Challenger.

At least Dodge has the ***** to stuff a 6.1 litre into a car when gas is 4.00 a gallon, instead of having Scott stand around and try to explain why the enthusiast should be happy with a 6 cylinder Firehawk.

Yes. SLP was a great company. But that was then, this is now. If I remember correctly, they jumped ship soon after the F-Bodies got axed and started modding Mustangs. Hey, I understand that they have to pay the light bill but don't come springing back to the enthusiasts mastigating an iconic nameplate and expect us to all get in lock step.

 

I'm sorry to post again so soon but one thing is bothering me.

If this G8 is such an amazing car why are you guys(SLP, GM) not creating its own nameplate?
If we are not even your target audience (as SLP has made clear in the other thread) why carry over an expired F-body nameplate?

Why does this amazing BMW killing, performance oriented 4-door sedan not deserve its own unique name and heritage?

 

Scott, Tony is right here. It's not that we don't have faith they'd make a good car, it's that this is a jacked up marketing stunt that should be ended before anyone else finds out.

This is a poorly marketed and named idea.

I think it's a dishonor to the hawk owners, it cheapens their nameplate, just like the Malibu Maxx SS. Tony, are you telling me it didn't disappoint you when that car was announced, if you were out in the '69 and pulled up next to a teenage girl in one of those? "Both of our cars are 'SS's'!" I mean, really, that's just dumb. This is the same dilemma that Scott feels is not a real issue. ****, at least cars in the 60's were sexy if they had SS on 'em, that concept is bland and tacky at the same time.

I personally believe that lifting the name of a rare, collectible and higher performing edition of a specific car for another model in hopes of sales boosts over the creation of an original name is pretty cheap.

I personally would like to own a Firehawk of any of the eleven years one day, they are stunning, but the subtlety and clean lines of that car is nowhere to be found on the SLP concept drawings.

Furthermore, if there are truly to be Firehawk G8 V6s made, people will riot in the streets. Yes, there were many original Super Sport cars made with the lower-performing engines of the day. The SS package was not really a primarily performance package in my mind, but the Z/28 and COPO cars were. Notice that GM never dared to defile another car with any of those badges. I see the Firehawk in a similar light although it doesn't have the performance increase of say, an all-aluminum 427 compared to a an optional iron-headed 396, it was a primarily performance related package with a different lid, catback, shocks and differentials available, and the same interior as the lower models of Firebird, although the hood and a limited production spoiler are different.

Slightly OT, the topic at hand, literally, is on motor trend's website and LS1tech is the source as well as being mentioned in the article. Go Tech!
http://wot.motortrend.com/6299946/af...ate/index.html

I don't even own an F-body and this is very distressing.

 

Wait...what did SLP do to the Camaro/Firebird that helped performance at the track? I thought they just slapped a hood, spoiler, and rims on them and marked the price up?

 

Lid + Catback.

 

Third Gen Hawks were beasts man. They got all kinds of performance upgrades.

 

If the Firehawk is supposed to be un upgraded performance oriented sedan over the standard G8 and its target is BMW, it should be consistent to their performance package. The M series of cars are more than just an appearance package, and are far from gaudy stripes. They are cars with 100 or more horsepower over their base model group. They come with wheels and tires that work with the much more aggressive suspension set up. They also come with lighter components, like aluminum hoods or carbon fiber roof panels and trunk lids. It is not a marketing scheme, it is an actual performance package beyond different shocks and a set of tires.

I own a 330i ZHP, and even it has a performance package beyond what is being offered by SLP. A quicker ratio steering rack, sport suspension, wider wheels, performance tires, camshaft, aggressive tune, exhaust, short throw shifter, and Mtech appearance package just to name a few. If you are going after such a target audience like myself who owns a true performance sedan you are going to come up short. The appearance must be something more than a stripe kit with tacked on ground affects or side moldings. The M series are so popular because you have a power bulge hood, a trunk lid with a slightly upturned integrated spoiler much like our Camaro SS not a goofy add on, a true one piece front bumper cover with integrated splitters, and a one piece rear with diffuser.

That is what makes BMW a popular performance brand currently, it appears to be integrated, a spin off the actual race environment. The cars drive like race cars, is this the target? Probably not. But I would say that SLP should at least drive a 330 sedan, then a performance package equipped ZHP, and then an M3 and feel the difference between each of those three cars. They will quickly find that the ZHP is a compromise between base model and a race car like feel. Then develop a package similar to those offered by BMW on their sedans.

Drop the Firehawk name, it will always be linked to the Firebird, much like the nameplate IROC will always be linked to the Camaro. It may have been inspired for a racing series and performance platform, but unfortunately it has 16 years of being with one car model.

 

Bingo.

 

I'm sorry Tony, but you should be embarassed and ashamed for this Jihad you have launched against SLP. A company that backed you when this site launched. A company that helped put you in a position to CASH THAT HUGE CHECK you got when you sold this site.

It's one thing to express your opinions in a civil manner. This is an all out assault. It's inexcusable.

 

I'm far from being embarrassed. It seems the majority of people here feel the same way. SLP is the one who should be embarrassed here, for ruining a legend that they created by slapping the logo onto a 4-door non-Firebird in order to make a quick buck.

Just because SLP paid to advertise on LS1Tech, that doesn't mean we as a community cannot give them honest feedback. We are not in the business of hiding industry feedback or opinions here. Several vendors here have felt the flame when they made poor decisions. If they were wise, they would pay attention and try to earn back our support of the company. The ball is in their court, we do not control the outcome of this fiasco. SLP can still come out of this as a hero, and still has the chance to sell several of these cars instead of pissing us off.

As for this being an assault, that comment is laughable. As Scott said above, people here have a lot of passion when it comes to their cars. Every enthusiast group has passion for their favorite cars. When you see a company that you have grown to trust and respect do something foolish like this and dilute a prized vehicle like the Firebird Firehawk, it evokes anger and resentment. That, and being told that our group doesn't mean anything to SLP, that our group isn't the target consumer, that decisions are final etc... Those come off like arrogant remarks from SLP, and sting even more.

This isn't an assault, it is merely showing SLP that we DO have a voice, and that we DO have some tiny bit of influence to this enthusiast car market.

 

I'm the other co-founder of LS1TECH, and I like the SLP Camaros and Firebirds, very cool cars.

I'm also not a fan of them calling the G8 a Firehawk because it doesn't resonate with me at all. I think they should just call it an SLP Series G8.

 

Tony's response was great. But I can sum up our opinions in one statement:
Change the name.

That's all we are asking for, and it's not a huge request.


I'm sorry, but where do you get off calling Tony's post with all facts, a "jihad"(which is a holy war for people like Chris who obviously have a limited vocabulary) against SLP? And then you are willing to bring a personal attack on one of the most respected members on this site? Tony has been monitoring the other thread, and deleting the "uncivil" posts. Nothing Tony has posted has been uncivil, and you have been. He's entitled to his opinion on a public site, about a revelant topic, whether you want to hear them or not. Your opinions as to Tony's character, which are irrelevant to this topic, and completely uncalled for are not welcome. Please restrain yourself from posting unless you have relevant opinions or information.

Thank you,
Gary

 

Keep in mind that ChrisL is a good friend of Scott (Fbodfather) and SLP. His replies are obviously going to back them, no matter what the topic is about. Do a search on his posts on this site, about 90% of them are acting as Scott and SLP's personal assistant. With that in mind, you can see his comments at face value. He has his opinions, we have ours. No biggie.

As for an update, we have located the threatening reply and permanently banned this user for making it. We do not tolerate physical threats on LS1Tech, this has always been our policy.