Starrbuck

I don't understand why you guys think GM thought it was going to be such a hit when the import restrictions are so heavy. It can't be too big of a hit else they couldn't have been able to satisfy the demand. This is likely why you don't see GTO ads, huge incentives, etc.

NYTIGER

With your mods, I'd be low 12's.

Hell, I'll be shooting for mid to low 12's now that the tuner is going to be released and planning on DR's for the spring.

Randy_W

There will be a redesigned GTO in '07-'08. Some '70-'72 styling hints with a '60's style tail light panel. LS2 with 420 h.p. standard and an LS7 variant for the 'Judge' or whatever they're going to call the performance upgrade model.

Rob

iTrader: (6)

Exactly. The 04 GTO sold more than the total production of Monaro's for '02 on ward. It wasn't supposed to be a big number production vehicle because it simply couldn't have been built.

Rob

iTrader: (6)

I think you'll find a lot of similarities between the new GTO and the new Camaro, especially if they are built off the same platform.

Firehawk0220

I hope the GTO stays the way it is now with few to no options. Leave the Camaro as the configurable cheaper car.

DeepBlueZ

exactly....the car was just meant as a way to give the Pontiac brand some notoriety and get buyers excited about Pontiac. Nobody at GM ever assumed it was going to sell in Mustang numbers...

and as for the '04's being given away.....That's because GM made the mistake of telling everyone about the changes for '05 something like halfway through the '04 model year. while this is common practice with most car companies, it's a bad idea with a controversially styled performance car.

simply put, telling consumers in June that next year's car will have more power and better looks is not a good way to sell this year's car. It doesn't make the '04 a bad car by any means. It's still a very capable performance car and simply gets overshadowed by the LS2 version.

there are STILL plenty of people I see on the GTO forums everyday who are plenty excited about buying slightly used, low-mile '04s for a low 20K price because it's an outstanding deal for a great car.

HTRDLNCN

I have already posted that 3 times and it has no effect.
People hear/read what they want to hear/read.
The Holden plant is physically incapable of building any more Monaros that they are. In fact it turned out they could build less than what was originally planned. They could have been building the worlds hottest looking car and yet they still could have only built the number they did.
Pontiac did not design the car for us. They took an exisisting car made in another country by another company and added a bumper and a wing to it.. THATS IT.. Thats all they did.. They didnt make a boring GTO,they didnt make anything, they took a car that already existsed and changed the front bumper. Thats it.
Difference between Monaro/hsv GTO and USA pontiac gto
front bumper
badges both inside and out
GTO stiching on seats and GTO name on instrument cluster
softer springs
rear wing added to satisfy Americans need for spoiler/scoops/vents,etc.
gas tank moved into trunk to satisfy safety ***** in USA..

As you can see the only thing Pontiac actually made is the front bumper.
So I cant understand why people keep saying they made a "boring" looking GTO.. They didnt make the damn car. The car already looked like that way before Pontiac even had an idea to use the poor car. I know its hard to erase people memory but if you can try just think if you never heard of a GTO and allo f a sudden Chevy said they were coming out with a plain looking midsize car with IRS,350- 400hp,siz speed for $30k .. I think a LOT more people would have been excited regardless the looks.


It cost GM zippo,nada,nothing to do that and they did it because it provided them a quick fix while they developed cars for down the road.
The only HUGE mistake was naming it a GTO.. While some may think using the GTO name was fine for the majority they took it as a personal insult and made it their lifes work to badmouth the car.
If it had been brought over as a Chevy Monaro for instance (no SS please) Im sure people would look at it as a cool V8 powered coupe. A power alternative to the current wrong wheel drive coupes . No one would be comparing it to Camarobirds or older musclecars.
The car was always supposedto last only three years here. They are not gonna stop making it because people dont like it or arent buying it,they are gonna stop making it because thats what they had planned three years ago!
The Monaro has been in production since 1997.. It may be 3 years old here but in reality its almost ten years old !
It can be discussed forever,everyone will always look at it differently ..
GM made a business decision to go with what they had and spend no money while they developed other platforms and using an Icon name (GTO) backfired on them.

07Sport

Im just curious...how did it backfire? The only ones that seem to have a problem w/ it being named GTO are a select few internet guys, not the 15k people that bought 04 GTOs or the others that have bought 05-06 GTOs? I think its fitting the car has the GTO nameplate. As I stated before, they followed tradition to a T IMO. LeMans to GTO in 64, Grand Prix to GTO in 04. And Im well aware the GTO and Grand Prix have no similarities other than their looks, but thats what the public sees and I have no problem admitting the GTOs look like an evolution of the older Grand Prixs, I liked the GPs. The only way Pontiac could have stayed truer to the GTO tradition, would have been to actually take the GPs a some how rig them up in a half assed way to be rwd and fit in the V8, Id say Im glad they did it the way they did.

HTRDLNCN

No argument here.I love my car.
But the people complaining are not people who bought one.
And it backfired because the idiots in the press constantly degraded the car just based on the fact it was called a GTO but didnt look like a breadbox from the 60s.. Same for all the older GTO organizations. You know these days what people read is gospel truth and they dont bother to check things out for them selves.

HTRDLNCN

seems the new Camaro is also going to be a Holden like the GTO...

__________________________________________________ ______________________

AUSTRALIAN know-how may revive yet another American icon.

At the Detroit motor show yesterday, Chevrolet revealed a new Camaro but beneath the muscle-car body were the underpinnings for the next generation of Australia's biggest selling car, the Holden Commodore.

Like a giant jigsaw puzzle, car makers are increasingly sharing underbody components in order to save money - and get more models.

They fit different bodies so the cars look different but share parts customers can't see.

Since Holden began exporting the Monaro to the US three years ago (where it is sold as a Pontiac GTO), the Australian outpost has increasingly come to the attention of its parent company, General Motors.

Holden is one of only three GM brands around the world that makes large rear-wheel drive cars, such as the Commodore and Statesman.

Demand from American baby boomers for modern muscle cars sent American executives to Australia looking for help. The Camaro was yesterday labelled a "concept car" but the Herald understands it is close to being confirmed for production.

"We have Australian engineers working on this project right now," Denny Mooney, the American boss of Holden, told the Herald.

With his connections in the US, it is likely the Chevrolet Camaro could be built in North America on the same production line as the next generation Pontiac GTO, which is due in 2008. Given that they share major underbody components, the same US factory could also produce a version of the new Holden Statesman, to be sold as a Buick.

But Mr Mooney stressed that production of the Commodore, Statesman and other models would continue in Australia and, in addition to its local manufacturing commitments, Holden would become the main supplier of technical expertise for GM's large rear-drive cars around the world.

"Holden is responsible for General Motors' global rear-drive architecture," Mr Mooney said. "We own the expertise to assemble and develop it."

Given this new development it is possible Holden could revive the Chevrolet brand in Australia.

Holden is already planning to establish a network of Australian dealers for Cadillacs brand and is also considering the potential of a Chevrolet revival.

Since it is based on the Commodore's underpinnings, the Camaro could easily be built in right-hand drive, according to Holden sources.

The last time Chevrolet was officially sold in Australia was in the 1960s, before GM withdrew the brand to focus on Holden.

The all-new models of the Commodore and Statesman are due on sale in August and September this year.

07Sport

yeah, those euro and japan boys over at car and driver and motor trend didnt take to kindly to the new GTO did they... course, for those of you who still subscribe, those guys who know exactly what everybody wants just chose the Honda Ridgeline as the truck of the year. yep, they are right in pulse w/ what real americans want...

the 05s styling seemed to bring a few around, but not many. I guess people should be forced to sit through a GTO intro course before they can comment on it.

Irakz

iTrader: (1)

wow I can't believe I just read all that!

I love my GTO, I also loved my Trans Am. I am just glad to have a RWD V8 car.

HTRDLNCN

Well in my case if it had been a raging success story I probably couldnt afford one and I dont like cars that you see everywhere. One reason I have never owned a Mustang or Camarobord. Whats funny is some of those writers publish in different mags and the same writers that trash the GTO in american mags write glowing reports on the Monaro in european mags!!

HTRDLNCN

same here brother..
Aussies are blessed,they get rear drive everything.. coupes,sedans,wagons,El Camino syle coupes with pickup bed both Chevy and Ford,you name it..
Americans are brainwashed into thinking we need wrong wheel drive. But thats a whole other argument !!

Dan

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am curious to know why GM brought the Holden over here & called it a GTO? Is it because of what someone else said..They wanted to just get something over here temporarily before the Camaro or other rwd v-8's were being designed & to possibly be built? I am sure this concept Camaro was being planned out before the GTO came over here in 04.

2edybrd

The press bashing on the GTO is another misconception. I tried to scan the articles from a couple of years ago, But Car and Driver, MotorTrend and , I believe Automobile all flipped out when the GTO hit the US. The MotorTrend article absolutely loved the GTO. Car and Driver liked the car so much they entered it into one of the Nevada High Speed races and beat the car all to hell and back.

The bad press started when Lutz found out Car and Driver destroyed his press car and gave them a beat down at a news conference.

Firehawk0220

I think they really did bring the Monaro over here to fill the gap. While they may have had concept Camaros and prototypes, or even just some crap on the drawing board before they made that decision, they didn't have time to bring out a new Camaro obviously. Plus they've also scrapped several non-retro prototypes in order to partake of the retro trend.

The Monaro had also been out in it's current form for a couple years prior to being brought here as the GTO.

2edybrd

About the only things I don't like about the GTO are the manual shifter, the relocated gas tank taking away half my trunk and the fact Pontiac thought they had to change out the front clip to "Pontiac-ize" it.

I'm also upset they didn't bring over the AWD Coupe 4 drivetrain as an option. That would of been nice

**edit** oh yeah, The stereo could have more bass and fill the cabin a bit more.

DeepBlueZ

2003 was the first year in decades that GM didn't make a RWD performance-oriented car other than the corvette, which is too expensive for most anyway...I think that had a lot to do with why we got the Goat in '04.