gMAG

iTrader: (1)

Tony, great effort and coverage with your pics.. I personally like the idea of the reprise of the "Goat", but GM is trying to satisfy too many people with this one. There's a little bit of Pontiac grill, or is it trying to evolve into a BMW up front? The wheels look cheesy, almost like the set of 4 for $27.00 at Autozone. I suppose adding a wing is the not so subliminal connection to the original(Judge). Paint finish and 5.7 engine is really nice, though! <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

PurplTA

YAWN!
I think it looks too much like a Grand Prix. Bob Lutz is bowing to the negative feedback from all those elitist a$$holes at Car and Driver and Moter Trend. C/D particularly hates Pontiac styling. I think Pontiac styling has always been distinctive and expressive. But no more. Lutz & Co. are doing away with most elements that make Pontiacs unique, so they'll blend in nicely with all the other forgettable vehicles on the road.
This vehicles doesn't merit its GTO badges. It's a reskinned Aussie car with too much weight, too little performance, no persona, and too high a price.

I don't think they'll get many TransAm converts with this thing. I'll keep my 95 TA. If that one wears out, I'll find a 2002 model somewhere and drive it til they come to their senses and build a new F-body.

PurplTA

<small>[ April 20, 2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: PurplTA ]</small>

PurplTA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Excal:
<strong> ...But at least the Wheel gap wraps aroudn the tires better, the f-bodys have that horrible gap. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't be so sure. Show cars are sometimes chained to the floor to make the wheel gap look smaller than it actually is. Dodge did that when they introduced the Intrepid.

mrgto

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PurplTA:
<strong> YAWN!
I think it looks too much like a Grand Prix. Bob Lutz is bowing to the negative feedback from all those elitist a$$holes at Car and Driver and Moter Trend. C/D particularly hates Pontiac styling. I think Pontiac styling has always been distinctive and expressive. But no more. Lutz & Co. are doing away with most elements that make Pontiacs unique, so they'll blend in nicely with all the other forgettable vehicles on the road.
This vehicles doesn't merit its GTO badges. It's a reskinned Aussie car with too much weight, too little performance, no persona, and too high a price.

I don't think they'll get many TransAm converts with this thing. I'll keep my 95 TA. If that one wears out, I'll find a 2002 model somewhere and drive it til they come to their senses and build a new F-body.

PurplTA </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't know much about Pontiac History do ya? Go look look at a 66GTO and a 66GP. You will see what I am talking about. All pontiacs basically since the mid 60's look similar. That is how you can tell they are a PONTIAC.

Also, the GTO will weight less than 3600lbs or right around where the TA weighs. Imagine that.

And as far as retro goes, go talk to the folks at Ford and see how well the T-bird worked out for them. T-bird has been discontinued. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

JCS30TH

iTrader: (1)

Sweet ride RWD grand am.. bout right..

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Probably will have one in the garage shortly after available.This car wasnt made too replace the f-body its a badass family car.The thought of an ls1 6gear in a family sedan is really cool.Im married 2 kids mid 30s it would be a good fit,especially with heads/cam 100 shot sewer pipe exhaust,making me salivate already.Bring it to market I will be first in line.

highgear

Looks like a plug change might be easier.

TaTommyWS6

The only thing I really like is the engine not being half hidden. Easy spring swap

Tommy

CamaroSS

iTrader: (2)

I am sorry, but having a grandfather who once had a GTO, I ask, is it so hard to put dual exhaust on a Pontiac GTO. I know that on all GTOs there wasn't dual, but in modern times this is esential. Also, "they stoped the Trans Am for this" someone put a WS6 next to the new Goat, which looks better, asside from refinement. Also, Chevy, step up, where is your performance car? The C6 is on its way and the C5 is still in production but they are not too affordable to me as a 17 year old kid. Slaping an SS emblem on a Tahoe or Trail Blaizer (Motor Trend, July 2003 p.128)is not the answer. Sure, the SS concept is cool but they are not even sure they even want to build it. Overall, the new GTO is a step in the WRONG direction for GM. If they do not bring back the F-body or the Chevelle even, the compay is doomed thanks Jap crap. Do't get me wrong, this is a performance car but do not stop one to buid another, I hope you all agree or maybe I am just weird.

scottknight

Why do you ask? It is going to have a true dual exhaust, unlike the Camarobirds. Are you offended by the fact that both tips come out the same side? I would rather have that than an f-car system any day.

GM did not kill the f-car to build the GTO. They were going to kill the f-car anyway because it was not making money. We are just lucky that Bob Lutz is involved and made it a priority to bring the GTO to market. It's a pretty good bet that GM is just sticking their toe in the water with this car and will follow it up with more interesting vehicles if it works out. I intend to vote with my dollars.

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Well said

CamaroSS

iTrader: (2)

Where did you hear that it was a true dual system? From the looks of the undercar pictures, looks like another y-pipe system. This goes through a single muffler. Why would a "True Dual System" go through one muffler, because it isn't. Look again, and also, they did not stop making the F car because of sales. That is just an excuse. The WS6, SS, and Vette all Dyno the same. My dads friend who owns a local chevy dealership said that they were too close in performance to continue poduction, along with it's dwindiling sales. This is directly from his mouth to mine. So expect the new F-body after the C6 release.

scottknight

Because it has been talked about from the beginning. Here is some light reading: http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index...exhaust&amp;s=

OK, was this it? Sure smacks of true dual to me.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hlight=exhaust

Well, maybe they will bring the f-car back. We can only speculate. We can only hope (I will never own one, but would sure like to see it in the lineup). I do have to call BS on the performance statement, though. That is truly not the reason they killed the f-car. It was becuase of sales, period. Call the decision flawed if you want, but that is the long and short of it. Volumes have been written on the subject...

CamaroSS

iTrader: (2)

[quote]
Because it has been talked about from the beginning. Here is some light reading: http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index...exhaust&amp;s=

OK, was this it? Sure smacks of true dual to me.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hlight=exhaust

Hey Knight, look at the concept pictures from the 1st page. Look at the under car pictures. This is not true dual. Look at the black pipe, more specificly, I-Pipe. I am going by these pictures, not the one you have posted. That may, perhaps, be a Monaro,and you don't know, or maybe I don't know. Sorry if I was incorrect on the theory about the Fcar, that is not my opinon, just like I said, the opinion of a dealership owner who knows more about the Fcar than you. The SS, WS6 and Vette (regular coupe) dyno the same, so you do not know what you are talkng about there.

scottknight

Well, keep in mind that IS a showcar. Lots of things will be different about that car than what shows up in the dealership. Already we know the tube headers and 18" wheels were teasers. Turns out the tasty yellow interior of the Detroit show car will also not be available (my biggest complaint so far). I have seen pictures of differently styled exhaust tips already as well (Monaro has a single, BTW). So, I don't go much by what the show car has...especially when the exhaust is painted black I sooner trust the word of the rep and have faith in Lutz.

I never said the y-car had a more powerful engine. What I meant was that GM would not kill the f-car for the reason that it performed nearly as well as the flagship car. Besides, the flagship car is now the Z06 anyway.

They have almost killed it many times, but finally made the decision now that sales are so poor. Don't get me wrong. I think it is a terrible shame that they killed it for the reason they did. I personally feel they could have easily made the car successful. Part of the problem is guys like me who would just never buy the car. Takes an Impala SS or GTO to make me open my checkbook. With any luck, the GTO will jump start the whole market for them and we will see more exciting cars...possibly the rebirth of the f-car.

scottknight

New info on the exhaust:

http://www.newagegto.com/forum/index...;f=6&amp;t=118

99PTA

nice pics

C6 Vette

I was the first to mention the Holden on many forums and no one would believe me. I told everyone, "Hey give them a chance, you never know it might be a real runner."

All the while I had this it's just another-sedan-with-a-LS1 idea sticking in my head. And, as nice as those pics are and all the others I have seen, it is still not American muscle, or anything close to the Camaro,Firebird or Vette.

Personally I am still stuck in the 60s and 70s and think I always will be. I lived it though and that makes it very easy to do. Just think, a 67 Dart with a Hemi, painted in drab primer grey and YOU had to go to motorcity to pick it up. But, right off the show room floor and it would run low 11s!!!

If you really look hard, you can find a Nova, Chevelle or Camaro, fix it up and have a real muscle car!

My 73 with a new ZZ4 can be owned for $9900

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Ya right low 11s stock.Car is a family sedan not musclecar.I stomp muscle car after muscle car with my LS1 at the track except for the rare non streetable ones.Old muscle that run 13-14s are far more common.I have many racing buddies with carb cars and very few can hang with my street car.

RATICAL WS6

I didn't like the car at the press release. I thought it looked like a Cavalier,(not enough body lines to look like a Grand Am). It is growing on me now. I have to admit from a BUSINESS standpoint, I think GM is right on target. It looks like a ricer,(I like the euro lighting), has power like an F-body,(I love the fact that the engine isn't JAMMED under the cowl!), IRS like an SVT Cobra, and LOOKS smaller like a Mustang.
As far as weight and performance, I read in Autoweek that this car was supposed to weigh less than the F-body at 3460 lbs, and run the 1/4 in 14.0 @100mph. I couldn't understand how a car with SUPPOSEDLY more HP,( 320 to 345) and less weight,could run slower.
I agree that it was STUPID to ruin an apparent improvement over the F-bodies single into dual exhaust,by putting both tailpipes on one side. It is about time from a performance standpoint for the IRS,(although I have worries of holding up to dragstrip use.)There should be some type of scoops or buldges somewhere to show this is a performance car.I feel these flaws will be answered by the aftermarket with no problem.
This being said, I think GM hit the mark. The F-body really didn't have a market to compare with.As much as I LOVE my WS6, They are too big, have outdated suspension, and just plain didn't sell. The Mustang which was supposed to be it's rival should not have even been in the same market as was proved by the Mustang outselling the total F-body line by more than 3-1. I personally don't think this car will convince most of the Mustang crowd to switch over, but it may make potential FUTURE Mustang owners to buy GM.
Too bad the F-body had to be killed to do it.