camaroman16

like the title says. another ebay find. i was just browsing the camaros and stumpled across this.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...1%7C240%3A1308

02ws666

iTrader: (1)

i literaly cam in my pants when i saw that... why didnt they do soemthing cool like that with the firebird??!??!!

Y2KFirehawk

iTrader: (12)

...The Blackbird cars!

camaro6662

relisted

BLK00M6

iTrader: (16)

what a douche. its not a "CR5" motor jackass, its a C5R motor as it plainly states on the intake... the "c5 wheels" are another proof that this person has no idea what they are looking at. Im sure the collector knows but the seller is a fool

waldershrek

iTrader: (1)

As nice a car as that is, I would not buy something from a seller this ignorant.

TWS

iTrader: (63)

"only" $110,000. What a bargain!

Probably going to take some flak since I'm in the special edition vehicles forum, but has anyone bothered to add up the number of all of the dealerships and aftermarket firms that all had their own "special edition" LS1 Camaros or Firebirds?

Sorry, but I just never bought in to the idea that a modern dealership could do a few mods, slap a few badges and stickers on a car, and make an instant classic or collectors item that I would have to pay a huge premium for.

The official GM CE versions of both the TA and SS are legit in my book, but there is such a crowd of non-OEMs that I eventually just

waldershrek

iTrader: (1)

Well believe what you want but it is true the GMMG cars will retain their value and probably increase. Look at the old Yenko's and COPO's.

TWS

iTrader: (63)

Consult your crystal ball or remember to update this thread in 20 years.

I emphasized modern dealerships and I think you might have missed my point. Yeah, Yenko's and some of the others (Baldwin Motion, Berger, Nickey, Dick Harrell, etc.) fetch big money now for their 1st gen creations... but don't you realize a bunch of those old dealerships (and even some newcomers!) were watching what happened to 1st gens and tried to cash in by attempting the same thing with late model F-bodies? I think it's a blantant money grab. The souped-up dealership 1st gens originally sold at a mark-up, but it was a more modest mark-up that was based on the value of the parts and mods performed, not a horrendous mark-up based partly on hype and nostalgia.

I've read analysis by some collector car industry insiders and many don't see what happened to 1st gens happening to 4th gens. While it's opinion and conjecture at this point (see that crystal ball comment), I tend to agree with them. I think some dealerships pulled a real sales job on buyers who think that their "limited edition" dealership special 4th gen is going to automatically be worth a fortune someday. "It happened to the 1st gens, so it just has to happen to mine" they think.

BTW, COPO is OEM, not aftermarket.

Allrighty, I'll go unplug my internet and enter the witness protection program since this is definitely a dissenting view in this particular forum. Bear in mind I owned a Comp T/A for 5 years, and I actually did very well when I sold it... but I just don't see all of these "special edition" cars being worth a fortune someday. I hope most folks who bought them, bought them because they get a kick out of their car and that ownership of it makes them happy. In that sense, it's a wise investment.

BigBake

I think your viewpoint is spot on. To add to it also remember people actually raced their special edition cars in sanctioned events. These new cars are being purchased to sit at very low mileage with no history behind them. The Yenko and COPO cars were legends at the track much like the first Z28. These cars had history which you cannot buy in any of these rare production cars of today.

The other issue is this, they would produce as many as they could sell back in the day, they were not limiting production runs to make them exclusive. If demand required more cars they were going to build them. As it is known there were many cars that were not purchased and sat in dealerships because of lack of interest in those particular areas.

Like all markets for the past 2 decades this one is as artificial as it gets.

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

If I had the cash to blow on a car like that, it would not be for an investment. I would drive it like I stole it.

waldershrek

iTrader: (1)

While it true the 4th gen cars were probably mostly a money grab, the fact remains the name and heritage of them will allow them to retain their value. Especially due to the fact you could only get certain models through certain dealers.

I guess technically they are aftermarket compared to the 1st gen variants but they were authorized by GM and sold through their dealers much like the 1st gens

I guess only time will tell if they retain or increase their value but I think they will.

BigBake

Heritage? What heritage? A company named GMMG did most of the 4th generation cars and they have no link to the past. The only true heritage cars would be the dealership cars or anniversary editions. The only names to the past are Yenko and Baldwin Motion, that is heritage not GMMG. They were selling a commodity based upon a similar program, the problem is no one who has purchased their cars races them or drives them for the purpose they were designed for.

waldershrek

iTrader: (1)

I was not referring to the company that made them, I was referring to the heritage of the dealerships that sold the cars.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

Really? so i suppose the Berger COPO's that were purchased by customers in the late sixites can't possibly be confused with the Berger fourth gen GMMG cars in the last decade right? Why don't you ask Ken Barnhardt,he bought his first AND fourth Gen ZL1's through the same dealership.

And there's no connection whatsoever with the GMMG P3 cars having the same C5R race block that the ALMS factory vettes have won over 100 major international sports car races with?

And that GMMG contracted with GM for every car built and sold through their high performance dealer network,they had to pass strict emissions, and had FULL factory warranties?

That people like John Heinricy,Jon Moss,Scott Settlemire,and many other GM execs oversaw the GMMG program?

Yep,your right..no difference at all between these and a Z4C camaro- and to think they sold every one they built... what sheep there are out there!

PSST all GMMG cars are "dealer" cars-that's the only way you could purchase one. Try doing a little reading before you get to hate-Hertiage through homage brother,you don't need to get it there wern't enough built to go around anyway

TWS

iTrader: (63)

Well, one point that I hope isn't lost is this:

The 1st gen "dealer specials" MADE the legend and MADE the heritage. The 4th gen ones pretty much just cash in on it.

Back in the era when 1st gen Camaros were still sitting on dealer lots, people were getting smoked in street races and at local tracks by Nickey, Berger, Dick Harrell, etc. cars. Those cars were actually taken out on the street and down to the track and put *** whuppin's on the unsuspecting competition.

The 4th gen versions just sit in peoples living rooms and get wiped down by a diaper every once in a while like the Ferrari in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. (slight exaggeration, but I wanted to use the Ferris comparison ) I remember that GMHTP actually did a full feature on some dude who had a GMMG car because he - gasp - actually takes it to the track! Because 99% of the owners of such cars would never dream of such a thing, GMHTP thought it was remarkable enough to warrant a full feature article.

The 1st gen cars went out and kicked some *** and established the heritage, the 4th gen versions are just riding on their laurels. If I could buy one at only a slight markup, yeah I would; but I wouldn't pay the super duper premium that I see when I see one advertised.

BigBake

If you think a 4 generation Berger is the same as a 1 generation Berger you are completely out of your mind. Two different cars that were designed specifically for two different things. I have said many times already, one was designed for racing in mind while the other was designed for money. Not even in the same vein.

I could care less about what some guy thinks, it is not going to change the facts here, the 1 generation cars were not marked up money grabbers, they were specialized race cars and people purchased them for that reason, not to sit in a climate controlled garage.

You are absolutely right, no connection. Strange thing about people who pay big money for racing cars, they like to actually see them race and have a story to go with them. They are not interested about the winter of 2008 when the heater broke in the climate control garage, which nearly caused the car to experience real environmental conditions. Or the day it was loaded up on the trailer to go to a car show and nearly experienced a rock chip from a passing semi.

Yippy…… Still not getting are you? It has nothing to do with heritage

And that would mean what exactly? Surely does not provide the heritage that you seem to be defending.

Exactly… Sheep that think people will value a vehicle based upon ridiculous low mileage, never seen a race course therefore never in front of a crowd to see their performance, that in 20 years some kid is going to grow up and say I want one of those cars that I saw in a climate controlled garage.

Psssst but they are not true dealership cars, a Hendrick Edition SS is a true dealership car for example, maybe you should read up on them. Not some Tier group car that a dealership contracts out. Oooops another heritage faux pa.

BigBake

Oh look someone who gets it.

LateBrakeU2

iTrader: (3)

Hendrick SS's were contracted out to a second tier group called SLP,so much for your true dealership theory. Keep on hatin,but denial ain't a river in egypt.

BigBake

All SS went to SLP, so what is your point? Thanks for pointing out the flaw in your logic. The only person in denial seems to be you, this subject seems to be out of your grasp for understanding.