Irunelevens

He didn't specify a model, he just said "a car."

Ke^in

There were 94 Mustang SVT Cobras that had a 5.8l Windsor V8

The 96-98 Cobra had a 305hp engine with DOHC 4v Both above were faster than the LT1s Z28s they were being compared with.

In 99 They had a 320hp Engine. While not AS FAST as a 99 LS1 Z28, it was damned close.

I wont got into the 5.4l R series

In 2003-4 the Mach1 was pretty much equal with the Z28. And the Termi Cobra.. well do I even have to mention that one?

I wont go into how the 3vs were very close in performance with the Z28 LS1s. And the GT500s blew them way.

So yes, Ford has been making cars that either compete, or outperform GM offerings for years. Even the Vette with Ford's GT.

Now if you want to say that this was the first time Ford made a GT in the past few decades that was faster than the Z28, then yes, that would be correct.

Gaunt

iTrader: (11)

I was with you until that part.

One is quite obviously a supercar, and the other one made is mass produced in Bowling Green.

chavez885

iTrader: (12)

Agreed
Close, sure.
Wow
Mach1 was, 03-04 cobras weren't z28 competition.
I guess. GT500's, really?
Dumbest **** you've said so far.

01stngkiller

I dont give a **** about all this GM vs. Ford crap. All i know is that i better get to modding my car because these 2011 GTs will flat skin it back. I dont care what anyone says lol I just dont plan on getting beat by Mustang GTs. Not because i have anything against Mustang owners or Ford boys, its just a classic rival and i plan on holding my end of the battle up. GM better step there game up and drop there prices if they wanna compete with this new pony. They need better suspension(the GT is out performing it with a solid rear axle), less weight(camaro is 300 lbs fatter), more performance packages(currently no packages). GM better step its game up or just go home.

My $.02

Ke^in

Supercar? It basically had a Cobra motor and supercharger. It was right up there with the Viper and Vette.
Yes I agree, it was a pretty amazing car.
Um yes it was. It wasn't geared toward competing with the Vette.
You keep making these statements that really say nothing but a reaction. I guess you are doing it so nothing you say can be debunked. So explain as to what you mean by "really?" it would go far as moving this conversation a long.
See above.

And this is even me going along with your "not meant to compete" or any price comparisons.

The statement I was replying to stated Ford finally made something to compete. Ford has been making cars that compete, and surpass GM's efforts for years now. You can make irrelevant claims that the Ford GT is a "supercar" (Like the z06 isn't...) but that doesn't matter. Outperforming is outperforming.

Me stating this also doesn't make me a nutswinger. I have no allegiance to Ford. I've only owned one Ford my entire life.

It cracks me up that anytime anyone that defends for in anything, right or wrong, suddenly becomes a "nutswinger" That actually shows a highly defensive mode on the person that makes the accusation.

They say we hate in what we think we see in others, that we hate about ourselves.

I'm just keeping it real.

Yo.

Peace.

Gaunt

iTrader: (11)

I think you would get ripped apart if you went to a Ford GT meeting and said that lol.

There is a lot more to it than that. I think Unit had a pretty good write up of when he drove one for a few days (I will see if I can find it).

Edit: https://ls1tech.com/forums/racers-lo...n-ford-gt.html

snake95

Many of the super defensive GM defenders on this site are bitter about the attention the Mustang gets from the public. Gotta realize that us gear-heads make up a TINY piece of the pie, so even if you point to the facts from the years 98-02, the average 16 year old kid just wants the "it" car...the Mustang has been the "it" car (in the eyes of the public who 98% won't mod it at all) for a loooooong time. Don't ask me why, maybe Ford's marketing? I am not saying one is better than the other (I will reserve my personal opinion), I am just calling a spade a spade and saying there is tension in the air when the car that the GM owners call overrated (which, I will agree, the Mustang has been overrated some years in the past) finally said God Damn we're sick of this gnat at a BBQ that is people saying Ford can't perform (see Kevin's list to learn otherwise if you didn't know) and made the run of the mill GT a fast stock car. GM produces great cars, Ford produces great cars. Like I said, calling a spade a spade.

Mr370z

There's a lot of truth in this. The mustang has been in the public eye for a long time and is more popular with the mass population. All the girls want a mustang, all the guys want a FAST mustang so it's finally happened. Now 16 year old dudes are going to be getting these brand new 5.0's for their first car and I believe a majority of them will end up wrapped around trees or smashed into other cars. The Mustang GT (and even the v6) finally got some ***** and they'll sell like hot cakes once again. But remember guys, just because a car can run mid 12's stock doesn't mean everyone who drives 'em can do it. I just wish they would offer something similar to the Ford GT.

BLWNV10

What 351-powered Mustang in '94 are you referring to? Are you thinking of the '95 Cobra R in which there were a mere 250 produced?

A 96/97 Camaro SS would walk a 96/97 Cobra with no problems. I should know, I owned one.

http://stangbangers.com/96_CobraVsCa...rd_Article.htm

Curious to know what Z28 was put into production in 2003 & 2004

Again, there was no F-body competition when Ford released the 3-valve GT and GT500.

Mr370z

Also, since I'm the one ALWAYS talking about price weren't all the mustangs you talked about "out performing" the Camaro's offered at the time had a noticeable difference in price?

Ke^in

So? Most of them are elitists.

BLWNV10

Yep, because in those days you had to buy either a "special edition" or limited-edition Mustang that was sold only at "certified dealerships" in order to match the base model F-body out of the box.

Gaunt

iTrader: (11)

Did you really read Unit's post (It's only the first page or two that you should read)? Anyway, we are off-track even more so than before. I guess agree to disagree to leave it on amicable terms

Ke^in

If any 16 year old gets one I will agree. Especially ones that aren't conservative drivers. Remember when the SRT-4 came out and parents and others were making a big stink about how fast it was? (high 13s low 14s) having said that, it's not as easy for a teenager to get one of these anymore. They aren't as cheap as they used to be. The 2011 is a bit of a step up for the GT platform. More along the lines of what the Z28/SS has always been. IF there are 16 year olds getting them, they have parents that are well to do. And stupid as ****. I'd say the same about the new V6. Neither car is for 16 year olds. Sorry, that may make me an old fuddy duddy, but I remember when I was 16.
The GT has had ***** for awhile now. Was it as fast as the fastest pony car at the time? No. But we aren't even talking a whole second faster. However you make a good point with the V6.
Of course they can't. You'll see a lot of 14s runs I bet. I did when the 5th gen Camaro came out.
Or take the Mustang Cobra out of the picture, and just make a Cobra car with better aerodynamics and that 6.2 engine with a twin screw Ford has.

The Cobra etc wasn't a limited edition. It's SVT line was like Chevy's Z or SS line.

Ke^in

Production 1994–1995
11,267 produced
Engine(s) 5.0 L Windsor V8
5.8 L Windsor V8(1995 R Model)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_SVT_Cobra

"Both General Motors products have been massaged by aftermarket powerhouse" Meaning they made more than the stock 270hp. That LT1 Z28 run is in LS1 territory.

What I find also odd is that the T/A Got a 14.1, had the same HP, transmission, and weighed LESS yet was .5 second slower.
The 2003 Cobra was on sale in 2002. There was still a ton of 2002 Camaros new on the lot in 2003 and 2004. Since there was no replacement for it, they were selling for a steep price.
That's not Ford's fault that GM killed the Camaro/T/A because of poor sales. The GT500 is faster than the 5th gen Camaro back in 2010 as well.

The Cobra etc wasn't a limited edition. It's SVT line was like Chevy's Z or SS line.

snake95

They produced and sold as many as they could, nothing "limited" about a Cobra that's not an R or other special make Cobra.

fdjizm

/thread

enginjoe

iTrader: (11)

This whole 5.0 thing is alot like when the SRT-4 came out and all the neon fanbois came over here talking about how they beat an LS1 and all the LS1 fanbois were up in arms about how it could never happen. Eventually, all the LS1 and SRT guys who had some basis in reality could see the truth of how it could happen sometimes, realizing of course, that anything can happen on the street.

It is a great time to be a car guy. There has never been this much selection of performance cars that regular people can afford on the market.

BLWNV10

You guys need to pay closer attention. Notice I said "it had to either be a special edition or limited edition Mustang". "Special Vehicles Team" produced special edition Ford vehicles (Cobra, SVT Focus and Contour). With that said, you had to pay the premium to get a Mustang that would compete with a base model Z28 or Trans-Am/Formula. The Mustang that was priced in the base Z28/Firebirds range (the GT) could not compete from a performance standpoint. And you could not just walk into any dealership and buy one. It had to be a SVT-certified dealer. FWIW, at the time they were released I had to drive a full hour just to test drive one because none of the dealers in my area were "certified". lol

Yes. '95 not 94.

"Aftermarket Powerhouse" meaning SLP Engineering. They were responsible for the ram-air hood/intake, rear spoiler, exhaust, wheels and suspension components. Same parts all other "stock" SS's received from 1996-2002.

It was still a 2003 model. There was no "direct" competition from GM that year. Period.

It's not Ford's fault. I was just making a point. And the GT500 should be faster than the 5th gen SS for $15,000 more. That only makes sense.