It'llrun

Hmm... Sounds like the benefits should be on the 3rd generation engine, as compared to a 1st generation engine... No?

Something funny to note: This, being LS1tech, has many comparisons and the most common we have seen over the past 3yrs + have been LS1 as compared to the new 5L. My guess would be, though I may have this all wrong, that it's because most of the members here with LS cars have LS1 cars, F-bodies in most cases. Those guys typically happen to have the LS1 as a power plant, which is good reason for this specific comparison.

Another note, funny or not: It seems now, that the Coyote has made such a massive splash in performance terms, many here are leading the way for everyone to NOT compare the LS1 to the Coyote in any comparison. They'd clearly rather the LS3, but usually some stroked version and almost never the LS1 itself. The reason for that is quite simple. The LS1 itself flat out loses. That's understandable, considering it doesn't benefit from being a highly advanced technical engine.

I've been saying for years, if the LS1 was so great, GM would've never bothered to replace it with more expensive and larger versions of the same design. It's ONLY flaw is that at some point, we run out of cubic inches to expand into and after that, it runs into trouble.

It'llrun

That's why I used quotations... It's not really an argument, but it's a conversation that almost always turns into the same old hashed out argument.

big hammer

5.0's are hilarious.

R6cowboy

iTrader: (3)

I don't understand how this was so hard to comprehend.


Not as much as they're impressive. But then again, look who's talking...

OneSlowV

iTrader: (2)

Iv'e seen guys spend more money on headers and gain less. Dumb dumb forgets he has only 1 cam compared to our 4 cams. So 1400 bucks for 4 cams and 50 rwhp isn't that bad at all.

That_One_Person

iTrader: (4)

A full bolt-on 5.0 with cams would throw down around 480rwhp wouldn't it? So around $4k assuming using all top-quality parts (i.e. kooks). I don't know all the options out there for Ford motors, but those are some pretty good numbers without touching FI.

(Coming from a guy whose LTjuan is slower than a new Honda Odyssey)

It'llrun

One more lame attempt to start another waste of time argument.

How many 5L engines have you worked on since 2010? If the answer is less than several(I'm confident it's actually zero), you have no grounds to label them anything negative because you really don't know anything about them.
Me either... seems fairly obvious, while $1,400 sounds like too much to several people, they're APPARENTLY trying to simplify an equation down to the # of cams needed and acting like it's this massive amount of cash... What they don't tend to remember, or maybe they simply don't know, is that 50rwhp is a BIG DEAL for any engine already making over 450 to the wheels.

The number of engines which can see that much benefit for that price... is fairly small. Some here will say that you could get the cam AND a set of heads for the LS1 for that price. What they need to consider is... you'll NEED both to match that 5L power. The 5L, conversely, can use the heads it came with.

YEPPP!

I've spent more testing packages for people over the years... and I haven't done it for over 10yrs. $1,400 isn't much to spend on an engine. Heck. headers can cost that much, but look at all these little adjustments that cost so much... TB's, intakes, even dyno tuning can cost that much. No, it won't for most, but I've certainly seen it happen more than once or twice.

Cwarta

iTrader: (12)

Ive got $2500 into an entire 416 build that makes over over 500whp thrue stock heads. These guys spending $10,000+ on engines to only gain 50-100whp need to get there **** together and start spending there money in better places.

If you got all those goodies and only pushing 550whp then idk what your doing wrong....

big hammer

poor itwontrun.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

not sure if serious? Last time i remember, you posted dyno results that were mid 400s. Do you have an update of said whp? And there are literally limited amounts of 400+ci builds out there that make 550whp.

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

I dont have cams... and im not done making power without them

Cwarta

iTrader: (12)

This is what I was responding to. No other LSX has came close to what?

Your buddy has more money into his EWP, VP, and intake than I do my entire engine lol. I have a a vic jr combo with the supporting cam and STOCK ls6 heads. This cam combo is setup to make peak power around 7,000 and these heads are choking it @6,200 so I cant even get up into the range everything is designed around.

plus those # are thrue 3:91`s and IRS

New heads/cam/intake and ill be disappointed with 550rwhp....

21* timing

ANd yes, it made over 500rwhp as is. 505/490

evangto87

iTrader: (6)

I was referring to at my dyno. Not in the entire world. 550whp isnt as easy as you make it sound. And he makes his power through a dana 60 with 4.10s.

Slowbird780

iTrader: (6)

Why the f*ck do people do roll races starting at 60mph.......... retarded

R6cowboy

iTrader: (3)

Out of curiosity, list the price of everything you bought/got to complete your 416 motor, from air intake to headers to oil pan including necessities like gaskets, fluids, bolts, any machine work and tuning. Then compare that to what everything would have been purchasing brand new.
And for the gentlemen who don't have the time, tools or knowledge to do labor and tuning themselves, that is usually not cheap for a quality build. I certainly agree with you that if someone spends $10k+ on an LSx engine build and only gained 50-100whp (over a stock application I assume), they either got completely ripped off and/or are completely clueless. I don't know how that would be possible to do on an LSx car though.

corysmach1

Evan is 100% right with everything he has said. A Coyote and Roadrunner is very comparable to an LS3. Stock for stock and bolt ons. I make 434 now with mild bolt ons. Bolt on LS3 cars here make 420....430 being high side. I am changing my bolt on setup still 100% long block and hope for 460-470. 2 of my good buddies have decent size cammed Ls3 vettes and one makes 464 other makes 468. Like Evan said this is real life results. Not Youtube.

Cwarta

iTrader: (12)

In not counting things like tuning software, headers, etc because the car already had those things. Hell it's got pacesetters on it for Christ sakes.

Callie's dragonslayer crank $450 4"
Eagle h beam 6.125 rods w/arp 2000's $300
Manley platinum series pistons $400
Akerly and child's rings $180
King bearings $130
Vic jr intake $300
Machine work $425
Block $100
Reused all the ls1 gaskets
Pro comp head studs $60
Ls6 heads $200

It'llrun

The guys spending that much didn't START their build with a used pickup truck block and a used crank, pistons and rods... You clearly did. A good Callies crank ALONE can cost over $1,500.

$450 for a dragonslayer... usually they're right at $1,500... So let's be realistic. Used parts, particularly stolen ones, tend to cost less than new, special made... LS7 stock Manley's go for about $700 a set, you spent 400... Yeah, used parts makes your build cost less.

And with that, you have the audacity... to claim these other guys, building NEW ****, should get their act together...

How does one buy used aftermarket cams that haven't been made yet? C'mon... You're TRULY comparing apples to oranges here and claiming both are red...

DirtRoads

Gm need more cubes to keep up with 302. If you think about it 346 compared to 302 is not fair at all...

Irunelevens

You don't want to open that can of worms again, trust me.