HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

You can't do it with stock cats either so stop putting stipulations on me w/o putting them on yourself.


It's easy to get 450whp out of a ls1. GMPP cnc'd ls6 heads and the grand am cup cam. Actually knowing what I know today it would make about 480whp.

Good luck with 351....you'll need it. Now I bet your talking carb'd **** to. You're everywhere tonight.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

Okay. So are you saying I can't get a 302 based motor with Ford parts to get numbers comparable to Notches numbers? Easy. The first example I listed a few notches above. And I have less cubes than him. If I transfer that stuff to a gen1 Lightning shortblock lights out. Plus my stuff came out in 1992. Notches stuff debuted in 1997. Big gap. Now is my motor a bolt on motor? No. But its using Ford parts. The LS is bigger,newer but you can compete. You need parts and you can do it without porting and using Ford parts.

My 89 Formula was faster than my stang. 14.2 95 MPH to 14.5 95MPH. However my stang was not the fastest of its type(87 Hatch was faster than me) but then again a 92 Formula with same combo was faster too than my 89. Those extra 40 come cubes do help. I have to give the edge to an 87 coupe 5.0 with 308 gears from 87-92 comparing them all but a hardtop 90-92 Fbody 350 would be a tick behind as would a 305 342 dual cat car.. I listed the TPI stuff to show even back then Ford could compete in OEM trim n/a.

It'llrun

You seem to have neglected to read his mention of 347 and 351 builds. Those would easily go over 400 at the crank and, done correctly, a 351 build, which was also available as a 393, would simply blast beyond 400..

Also, the last GMPP you did was long after the builds he's talking about and THAT was his actual point. You claimed it didn't happen, essentially and you still do. Facts are sssssstubborn things though and they still don't care what you want.

Ford still offers a 535/545 351 based 427... That's a tad beyond 400 or 425... just a tad...

They also offer all the parts or a complete build for a 374 rated at 540hp... SBF and a 363cube 302 based 500hp...

That doesn't even BEGIN to get into their BBF stuff, which has been available for decades, starting these days with a 575hp non-stoked, not even bored, 460.

EDIT: Dayum... I completely left off the punch line... That "BBF" isn't a BBF at all... It's a SBF... stroked to 460. Oh well, kinda ruined that part.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

That is you and your *** **** buddies all the way. Done proved that on each one you in the past couple days.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

I think I could get 450RWHP with stock cats with a 351 based stroker using Ford parts. I correct my self about 500RWHP. I was wrong on that I don't think it could be done with stock cats and catback. Didn't think of that

GMPP heads are LPE ported LS6 heads with a GM part number. I am not sure who designed the grand cup cam. Those are all post 01 pieces as well.

A 351 based stroker using Ford parts and NONported heads would be right there with that 480RWHP. What would be hurting the Ford is the intake. I am not sure if the LS6 could support that kind of power unported and if the stock LS1 stock tb unported could do that too. And remember I am using 1990s parts compared to your newer tech plastic intake stuff.

I am not everywhere. I am retorting to your comments.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

While you're laughing check this out.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...lsx-454-r.html



I don't know about the rest of the guys on this site. But I've out ran a hell of a bunch of fords in the various stages of my car. If it were as easy as Mike is trying to make it seem........Maybe just 1 of them would've out ran me.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

I never said it was easy. Its not cheap either. But it can be done using Ford parts designed by Ford and staying n/a which was my retort to you and others saying Ford doesn't build n/a stuff. They sure do and they have for a long time

It'llrun

My own made 502rwhp and 496 torque. It's possible to get plenty from those old designs.

I don't think you'll get him to come around on this stuff though. He's completely lost of Ford power plants, to be sure. He just knows the LS1 beats the world and if that isn't so, it's the rule anyway!

...or he'll just point to a later, far better replacement to the LS1. He's not interested, however, in what Ford engines could do because he doesn't want to believe any after about 1965 was really any good until the new 5L.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

ALLLL......ooookkkk..... Now I see you want to stroke that pos to keep up with a 347. Understandable. Do it using production parts.....that's what I like any way.

Now you want to use pre 01 **** and catalog ****.......Not a ******* problem. SB2 coming up. I mean if you're goin to use the cream of the furd crop expect the same from me.

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

I don't need to stroke it. I can run OEM stuff and match it

Lightning shortblock converting to roller cam(which again can be done with Ford parts)
Xheads
X cam
GT40 intake
FMS 351 headers

You can't match me. Gm doesn't make heads or an intake that can support the power level needed to beat me. Yes you can buy a Fast etc but argument is using factory designed parts. If we had a shootout using both books on an engine dyno you would be in real trouble against me.

You lose. LOL

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

You see this is where it get's really ******* great on my end. I can say it was easy......and not really that expensive.
It's that I don't believe......it's that their **** wasn't that good. Sure you can point to a few stand out specialty engines that were good, you can do that for both sides. But for the most part I don't give a **** about those on either side. WHY??? Because they get expensive. None of us is class racing heads up here. We are just ******* with cars. $$$$$$ is a issue for most of us.


You guys are yakking about 500whp built engines. That's a cam only ls3 these days.

It'llrun

That 454 is BADASS... But whoa to the price! I know it's 195hp short, but the "460" Ford is well under half the price... $14,000 less and comes with a W.P. and the oil pan...

You could also get a 501(460) Ford, only 500hp... but complete and needing only the headers(belt, wires, plugs, carb etc. all included), for $11,500... Again, under half the price. That engine could rather easily be made to over 770(rwhp) for the added $12,500... C'mon... That's too much money for what GM is offering.

OUTSTANDING power, but we could do better for thousands less these days by getting the block and starting ourselves. I mean with the LSX you linked, not a Ford(which could also do better).

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

I've already stated we made over 450whp on a stock ls6 intake and you stated you didn't think ford made a intake to get you there. Good luck getting there with a gt40 intake. You'll only be about 100+hp short. But if you want to say you win......have at it.

Irunelevens

Uh oh Mike, apparently we're "*** **** buddies." Poor Doug, can't ever admit when he's wrong.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

You can always use this one. it can be had for a little less than $10 if you look around.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...s/lsx-454.html

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Show me where I'm wrong.

Mike's gonna and try and keep up with a stock gt40 intake. How do you think that's gonna work for him?

Mike Morris

iTrader: (55)

Yours is easier but it should be. It is way newer/ That was not my retort. Your comments have been that Ford can't compete with Ford parts staying n/a. That is wrong.

My lightning build that I have posted on here is not a specialty motor and is not built. And again.

You made 450RWHP with what heads? I don't see how any stock LS6 head can support that much unported and with no valve job or milling. Yes the GT40 is the limiting factor no argument. It sucks compared to a LS6. But my example would be right with a LS6(not an LS1 which would LOSE) despite that again using stock parts

BTW Notch had your lid and a pulley on his car. Not straight GM parts so that can't be brought into this discussion.

Irunelevens

You said "Ford couldn't build an N/A engine to compete." Then you said you didn't say that. Are you arguing that? Very simple question.

It'llrun

You linked us to a $24,000.00 engine and turned right around to say it's not really expensive? Uhhh... yeah... it is.

Of course it's easy... Someone else did it.

In your mind... Since you never built their **** though, you just don't know.

Mike and I just took 2 difference directions to reach the same goal and each of us came up with a rather long list of standouts... just sayin'.... I know you don't WANT to know it, but it's true anyway, no matter how much you wanna hate it.

That was OFF THE SHELF FORD in 1995! Earlier, actually. So how is a cam only(meaning what we all know, everything but the reciprocating assembly and heads(which have been ported) has been replaced) so much better by contrast?

I did it in the early 90's even, when the parts REALLY WERE expensive!

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Ok.....so now we're back to your modified ford pp parts not running with a stock ls1 again.
We made over 450whp with GMPP ls6 heads and a stock ls6 intake.
Now I can't even have a airlid. Why don't you just throw a restrictor on me Mike. That's what it's gonna take on your end.
Yea I said it. That's true until the new 5.0's. Other than a few engines from the 60's/early 70's which I don't consider applicable to this forum.
There is really no purpose in goin there other than that's your last straw......then you're grasping and twisting to try to stay in it. we all know we're talking about post 90~ **** for the most part.