sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

It's not the cost of the motor. Puck nailed it, it's simplicity, versatility and aftermarket support.

snake95

You think this way because people hate change. I admit, myself, that I prefer pushrod motors because I know more about them but it doesn't mean that OHC setups can't come down in price in the future and make them a viable solution for more swaps.

It's the same old regurgitated bullshit when it comes to the 5.0s...you can dress up the denial any way you want to "justify" your position. Simpler, more compact, etc. The EFI LS1 sure is a lot more complex than an old carb'd SBC, you guys don't think those guys were saying the same damn thing almost 20 years ago about the LS1 being too (insert terms to make LS1 sound undesirable) then?

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

Denial? Lol. The modular motors may get there one day but they've got a long way to go to surpass the LSx in popularity. It's going to take more than just the coyote, it just can't compete with the versatility. In my opinion, for an OHC motor to surpass the pushrods it's going to have to be the far and away better choice and the coyote only has part of the LS field covered and even then it's not by an amount that would justify the extra hassle and cost, unless you just want a ford motor.

snake95

I'm saying the ones that talk up LS motors and talk as if 5.0s are just too complex sound like the old guys with their SBC mindset. Hassle and cost? AKA complexity and it's a newer motor so of course it costs more?

History repeats itself...

When people talk about "simplicity", I hear "a retard can throw together any combo and it can run decent". To me, that's not exactly a necessity. If people do their homework before throwing parts at a car and hoping for performance, that isn't as important. Cost, however, is important, and OHC motor costs will come down in due time.

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

The 4v has been out for 18 years and it is well known how capable those motors are yet almost all the Ford guys in drag racing use SBF's and BBF's. Shouldn't they have caught on by now?
I don't know of one car that runs any of the drag radial classes and uses a modular Ford.

marc97taws6

iTrader: (6)

Many supercharged guys lasting at 600-650+rwhp for a long time on stock bottom end LS3s.

LS2s and LS3s love boost.

snake95

LOL the early 4.6 modular motor was pretty primitive in terms of the capability of OHC in a performance car. Look at the new 5.0 with variable valve timing, STILL cubes limited and pumps out impressive numbers.

4.6s were also cubes limited.

What's going to happen when the cubic inches of the OHC motors gets to where these 6.2 and 7.0 LS motors are?

What's going to happen when the same old points of "4 cams is too complex, too many moving parts, too big compared to OHV" are such small differences that the arguments are just grasping at straws?

When people bring up the LS3 an 5.0 being close in size, people jump to the moving parts argument...or aftermarket...OHC V8 American motors in our pony cars WILL catch up in terms of popularity.

I prefer pushrods because I've never wrenched on an OHC motor, all I've done is read about them. I'm still wise enough to know that they offer some things that OHV motors don't.

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

Didn't I say the OHC will catch up but the 5.0 is not that motor? Didn't you just agree with me? What's your argument here?

snake95

No, you said it "may". I said it will. You also said it has to be the far and away better choice, my point is people will hang onto small details to make it look like a bad choice over an LS anything.

Gt4urass

So, by your own admission and specs, the coyote is smaller, thus easier to package, makes FAR more power per ci, and the only penalty is a 12 pound weight difference? Solid argument brah. Not to mention, bolt on to bolt on, they're very similar, as well as cam only builds, as both can see over 500 to the ground in that trim. The only advantage for the LS is less complexity, and less cost when changing anything associated with the heads, as well as the ability to increase displacement, which it also needs in order to put any ground between itself and a 302 inch motor. How impressive.

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

The 5.0 is a great motor, but it doesn't posses the qualities that made the LSx series so popular. I'm not grasping for straws, that's just the facts.

Gt4urass

The LS is definitely the way to go for a swap, but it is just behind in engineering and efficiency. Also just the facts.

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

Yea the debate was if the 5.0 is going to be the "LS1 of the future". Not sure why you and snake seem to be hung on a which is the best/most efficient motor debate.

Gt4urass

Doubtful IMO. Far too many options and parts available for the Chevy, doubt the OHC motors will ever catch up in that respect. LS's are just like the sbc motor, but the easiest choice doesn't always make it the best choice

sw07gt

iTrader: (10)

Agreed but the LSx/SBC have been called by the best motors by numerous places, doesn't mean they're the greatest motor ever created. It's all about versatility, simplicity, aftermarket support and cost. Otherwise everything would be 2j and 4v swapped.

Gt4urass

Agreed.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Sorry but the LS and SBC are waaayyy more similar then a 5.0 is to anything else. LS is no more complicated then an EFI SBC, just more modern. They are both pushrod V8s - although the heads are a different valve angle, and the bock itself has some small variances, they both work fundamentally the same. Hell, you can now get SBC blocks that take LS heads as a direct bolton.

5.0 is a totally different, way more complicated monster. Have you seen the size of those cams? All FOUR of them??? Do you know how they spin internally and adjust duration and lift on the fly? That is terrible for an aggressive build, so little phaser blockoffs have to bee installed to keep it from adding 40 duration to your race cam amd making the valves say hello to the pistons. The cams are physically huge, and with 4 of them it is very expensive for a set - $1,500 for cams from Comp vs $250-300 for an SBC or LS cam. Cylinder heads are huge and complicated as well, taking twice as many valvesprings (more money), longer to port, and costing more to cast. Ported stockers for a 5.0 were $2500 last I checked, and that is WITHOUT springs and hardware( and remember, they take a lot more hardware so we're not talking a $200 spring kit here). An SBC or LS ported stocker is less then those bare castings for a complete set ready to bolt on.

All these things add up to a much more expensive and complicated motor to build, and time itself wont change any of that.

willizm

iTrader: (10)

Honestly LSx motors and modular ford motors are ****. Long live b16 bitches!!

Gt4urass

Lolz.

R6cowboy

iTrader: (3)

For f*ck sake... You're in a good mood today. Lol