I got drug, and I'm butt hurt. Real butt hurt. Feelings hurt bad.
05-06-2014, 07:11 PM
#341
10 Second Club
So, by your own admission and specs, the coyote is smaller, thus easier to package, makes FAR more power per ci, and the only penalty is a 12 pound weight difference? Solid argument brah. Not to mention, bolt on to bolt on, they're very similar, as well as cam only builds, as both can see over 500 to the ground in that trim. The only advantage for the LS is less complexity, and less cost when changing anything associated with the heads, as well as the ability to increase displacement, which it also needs in order to put any ground between itself and a 302 inch motor. How impressive.
05-06-2014, 07:47 PM
#343
05-06-2014, 07:50 PM
#345
I feel you there. I love shifting my own gears, and absolutely despise Ford for providing a badass ride, with the exception of everything between the motor and rear. *******. The autos are nice though!
05-06-2014, 08:04 PM
#346
I know, I was taking his word for it. He did say "just a cam change". An LS3 seeing 500+whp with only a cam change= bullshit. Yes, with headers, exhaust, intake, etc etc bolt-on's. But now you're getting into at least a couple thousand dollars in mods and parts. A cam change alone by itself like he said, not a chance.
Regardless, dude exaggerates and tries to make LSx anything sound greater than it is.
Regardless, dude exaggerates and tries to make LSx anything sound greater than it is.
Personally the LS3 is a better platform for the regular guy looking to make more power for less $. LS3 with H/C can make low to mid 5's in a fairly mild pump gas setup. That in the right chassis with the right RW is easily a 9 sec n/a car on pump. Twinturbo1 went 151mph with a junkyard stock block l92 with h/c nitrous at 3000lb rw.
05-06-2014, 08:10 PM
#347
7 Second Club
05-06-2014, 11:12 PM
#349
Not saying it can't but its alot easier and cheaper to do it with a pushrod. Its such a simple motor to work on.
motor accessibility aswell. Lets just say i paid 6 times as much as i paid for my 5.0 then i did for the L92 longblock i have.
An LS custom cam is $350-$400 for a 5.0 your looking at $1500 for an off the shelf cam. When talking about a guy with power to $ ratio its a no brainer which to go for.
Then accessibility and weight and simplicity. This is why the LS swap is so much more common.
motor accessibility aswell. Lets just say i paid 6 times as much as i paid for my 5.0 then i did for the L92 longblock i have.
An LS custom cam is $350-$400 for a 5.0 your looking at $1500 for an off the shelf cam. When talking about a guy with power to $ ratio its a no brainer which to go for.
Then accessibility and weight and simplicity. This is why the LS swap is so much more common.
05-06-2014, 11:30 PM
#350
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Can we stay on topic and have a real discussion about this, or are we going to change the subject ?
LS3
----
Displacement: 6.2 L
Dimensions: 27.5" H X 27.5" D X 30" W
Engine Weight: 418 lbs.
Horsepower: 426
Torque: 420
HP/L: 68.7
Coyote
-------
Displacement: 5.0 L
Dimensions: 27" H X 26" D X 28" W
Engine Weight: 430 lbs.
Horsepower: 420
Torque: 390
HP/L: 84
Both are time bombs above 650 as stock engines. But the ls3 can see over 500 whp with just a cam change. 5.bro's spend thousands of dollars on bolt ons and are lucky to see 50 less than that.
LS3
----
Displacement: 6.2 L
Dimensions: 27.5" H X 27.5" D X 30" W
Engine Weight: 418 lbs.
Horsepower: 426
Torque: 420
HP/L: 68.7
Coyote
-------
Displacement: 5.0 L
Dimensions: 27" H X 26" D X 28" W
Engine Weight: 430 lbs.
Horsepower: 420
Torque: 390
HP/L: 84
Both are time bombs above 650 as stock engines. But the ls3 can see over 500 whp with just a cam change. 5.bro's spend thousands of dollars on bolt ons and are lucky to see 50 less than that.
05-06-2014, 11:37 PM
#352
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05-06-2014, 11:54 PM
#353
Check out the dimensions he posted...guy is a tard. If your argument is that it's smaller and easier to package, don't post specs that prove the contrary. He is...special at best.
05-06-2014, 11:55 PM
#354
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05-07-2014, 12:52 AM
#356
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I don't think you guys realize cams in those engines will not make as large a difference as they do in ls engines. Go look for a cam much over .500 for a Coyote/rr. In a quick search it's hard to find them over. 500. Do they need major modifications to run over. 500~? I know comp has fazer limiters. Fact is 2mm is a large change where valve lift is considered. This is why I snicker at these guys talking about flow @.600. I have yet to see a cam for those engines to get them to .600.
Think of when you're blowing up your g/f and find she's been popped again.. air flows more easily...
J/K... I noticed the compliment on the 5L... Nice.
...
By which vane definition?
Must be fuel... wait, no... hp per liter... wait, no... dammitman! What is it!
Not saying it can't but its alot easier and cheaper to do it with a pushrod. Its such a simple motor to work on.
motor accessibility aswell. Lets just say i paid 6 times as much as i paid for my 5.0 then i did for the L92 longblock i have.
An LS custom cam is $350-$400 for a 5.0 your looking at $1500 for an off the shelf cam. When talking about a guy with power to $ ratio its a no brainer which to go for.
Then accessibility and weight and simplicity. This is why the LS swap is so much more common.
motor accessibility aswell. Lets just say i paid 6 times as much as i paid for my 5.0 then i did for the L92 longblock i have.
An LS custom cam is $350-$400 for a 5.0 your looking at $1500 for an off the shelf cam. When talking about a guy with power to $ ratio its a no brainer which to go for.
Then accessibility and weight and simplicity. This is why the LS swap is so much more common.
As for the (discontinued) L92, you're talking about building a used engine vs buying a new engine. Buying an LS3 with 430hp can set you back a tad as well. For example: GM Perfromance part # 19257530 ... LS3... $7,909.97 from Summit Racing.
The complete Coyote, including the harness and PCM and the cam tool and cam phaser lock kits AND a new set of cams... $8,864.87, also from Summit Racing.
A difference of... $954.90... If that will be a deal breaker for anyone, they have no business building an engine in the 1st place because as most of us know, when you get into building your engine, especially for a swap, before it's over, you're spending at least a grand more than you planned anyway.
All said, these engines pricing is quite close. I didn't have to add the $895. off the shelf of Ford camshaft set for the 5L... after all, it comes with cams which work quite well. That's part of why these highly technical variable timing V8's are so good. They don't need massive lift, etc. Without the replacement cams... They're really within about $100.00 of each other. If one is only looking for 600hp from either engine, a S/C or turbo will easily get them there. With that, $7729.94 gets the 5L and harness.
There's nothing wrong with either engine... but they're hardly the vastly different prices you think they are. Sure, better deals can be had and even more power, etc. All things vary and depending on who's building, most of those things don't matter much.
As cam for the Coyote camshaft pricing... $1,500 will get you COMP stuff and that's fine, but a Ford set is about 1/2 that price. Conversely, you can spend $800-1,600 for a rocker arm kit for the L92. Point is, things are just different and if we're talking about new vs new, pricing isn't that far off.
05-07-2014, 03:01 AM
#359
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05-07-2014, 04:10 AM
#360
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Is that 550? No....