I got drug, and I'm butt hurt. Real butt hurt. Feelings hurt bad.
05-06-2014, 03:20 PM
#321
The 4v has been out for 18 years and it is well known how capable those motors are yet almost all the Ford guys in drag racing use SBF's and BBF's. Shouldn't they have caught on by now?
I don't know of one car that runs any of the drag radial classes and uses a modular Ford.
I don't know of one car that runs any of the drag radial classes and uses a modular Ford.
05-06-2014, 03:23 PM
#322
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Basically exactly what I predicted the doubters would say.
Too expensive and complicated, it'll never catch on...
Prices will come down...and this hobby is all about sacrifices anyway. You want to have more power and better driveability than you could in an OHV engine? DOHC, yep you have to buy 4 cams, part of the sacrifice. Don't like it? Stick to OHV!
I'm saying people won't be afraid to jump into the OHC stuff with their project cars once they realize it's not the devil because it's different than the traditional pushrod stuff...THAT is what takes time, too.
Humans inherently hate change, myself included. I'd love nothing more than Ford to come out with new generation of pushrod SBFs.
Too expensive and complicated, it'll never catch on...
Prices will come down...and this hobby is all about sacrifices anyway. You want to have more power and better driveability than you could in an OHV engine? DOHC, yep you have to buy 4 cams, part of the sacrifice. Don't like it? Stick to OHV!
I'm saying people won't be afraid to jump into the OHC stuff with their project cars once they realize it's not the devil because it's different than the traditional pushrod stuff...THAT is what takes time, too.
Humans inherently hate change, myself included. I'd love nothing more than Ford to come out with new generation of pushrod SBFs.
05-06-2014, 03:26 PM
#323
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Sorry but the LS and SBC are waaayyy more similar then a 5.0 is to anything else. LS is no more complicated then an EFI SBC, just more modern. They are both pushrod V8s - although the heads are a different valve angle, and the bock itself has some small variances, they both work fundamentally the same. Hell, you can now get SBC blocks that take LS heads as a direct bolton.
5.0 is a totally different, way more complicated monster. Have you seen the size of those cams? All FOUR of them??? Do you know how they spin internally and adjust duration and lift on the fly? That is terrible for an aggressive build, so little phaser blockoffs have to bee installed to keep it from adding 40 duration to your race cam amd making the valves say hello to the pistons. The cams are physically huge, and with 4 of them it is very expensive for a set - $1,500 for cams from Comp vs $250-300 for an SBC or LS cam. Cylinder heads are huge and complicated as well, taking twice as many valvesprings (more money), longer to port, and costing more to cast. Ported stockers for a 5.0 were $2500 last I checked, and that is WITHOUT springs and hardware( and remember, they take a lot more hardware so we're not talking a $200 spring kit here). An SBC or LS ported stocker is less then those bare castings for a complete set ready to bolt on.
All these things add up to a much more expensive and complicated motor to build, and time itself wont change any of that.
5.0 is a totally different, way more complicated monster. Have you seen the size of those cams? All FOUR of them??? Do you know how they spin internally and adjust duration and lift on the fly? That is terrible for an aggressive build, so little phaser blockoffs have to bee installed to keep it from adding 40 duration to your race cam amd making the valves say hello to the pistons. The cams are physically huge, and with 4 of them it is very expensive for a set - $1,500 for cams from Comp vs $250-300 for an SBC or LS cam. Cylinder heads are huge and complicated as well, taking twice as many valvesprings (more money), longer to port, and costing more to cast. Ported stockers for a 5.0 were $2500 last I checked, and that is WITHOUT springs and hardware( and remember, they take a lot more hardware so we're not talking a $200 spring kit here). An SBC or LS ported stocker is less then those bare castings for a complete set ready to bolt on.
All these things add up to a much more expensive and complicated motor to build, and time itself wont change any of that.
Last edited by Irunelevens; 05-06-2014 at 04:10 PM.
05-06-2014, 03:46 PM
#325
The 5.0 looks strong to NA.
Recipe for 550 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
E85 Fuel
Recipe for 575 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 600 rwhp:
Valve job (back cut), light port on heads (stage 1-2)
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 550 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
E85 Fuel
Recipe for 575 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 600 rwhp:
Valve job (back cut), light port on heads (stage 1-2)
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
05-06-2014, 03:52 PM
#326
Basically exactly what I predicted the doubters would say.
Too expensive and complicated, it'll never catch on...
Prices will come down...and this hobby is all about sacrifices anyway. You want to have more power and better driveability than you could in an OHV engine? DOHC, yep you have to buy 4 cams, part of the sacrifice. Don't like it? Stick to OHV!
I'm saying people won't be afraid to jump into the OHC stuff with their project cars once they realize it's not the devil because it's different than the traditional pushrod stuff...THAT is what takes time, too.
Humans inherently hate change, myself included. I'd love nothing more than Ford to come out with new generation of pushrod SBFs.
Too expensive and complicated, it'll never catch on...
Prices will come down...and this hobby is all about sacrifices anyway. You want to have more power and better driveability than you could in an OHV engine? DOHC, yep you have to buy 4 cams, part of the sacrifice. Don't like it? Stick to OHV!
I'm saying people won't be afraid to jump into the OHC stuff with their project cars once they realize it's not the devil because it's different than the traditional pushrod stuff...THAT is what takes time, too.
Humans inherently hate change, myself included. I'd love nothing more than Ford to come out with new generation of pushrod SBFs.
05-06-2014, 04:05 PM
#327
Teching In
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The 5.0 looks strong to NA.
Recipe for 550 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
E85 Fuel
Recipe for 575 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 600 rwhp:
Valve job (back cut), light port on heads (stage 1-2)
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 550 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
E85 Fuel
Recipe for 575 rwhp:
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
Recipe for 600 rwhp:
Valve job (back cut), light port on heads (stage 1-2)
Custom cams
CJ intake
SCJ TB
4.5 inch CAI
1 3/4 or 1 3/4-1 7/8 step + full exhaust
FTW Fuel
05-06-2014, 04:15 PM
#329
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Reading isn't your strong suit, huh? Evan's motor has never been opened, and IIRC it is only one side of the heads that get slightly better cams on the Roadrunner vs. the Coyote. Custom cams and E85, Evan would be real close to 550rwhp.
05-06-2014, 04:52 PM
#331
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Fyi for guys.....my 1.8 rockers lifted my valves a extra 3/4 of a mm.
Math is a bitch huh snake....lol
05-06-2014, 04:54 PM
#332
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I'm not even arguing... I just think it's only right to prove your point rather than simply repeat a statement.
05-06-2014, 05:08 PM
#333
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Pretty much. I'm sure they can get to that kind of power. But he must be forgetting the roadrunner has cnc'd heads from the factory and different cams to net 20 more hp. Not a huge increase.
Ya think......well you can look at it like this. If you started with a .500 lift (roughly ls1 lift)cam.....then you would end up with a cam larger than a ls6 cam from those 2mm(.578) that you think nothing of.
Fyi for guys.....my 1.8 rockers lifted my valves a extra 3/4 of a mm.
Math is a bitch huh snake....lol
Ya think......well you can look at it like this. If you started with a .500 lift (roughly ls1 lift)cam.....then you would end up with a cam larger than a ls6 cam from those 2mm(.578) that you think nothing of.
Fyi for guys.....my 1.8 rockers lifted my valves a extra 3/4 of a mm.
Math is a bitch huh snake....lol
05-06-2014, 05:20 PM
#335
He doesn't have cams or run E85. You do realize cams make a HUGE difference on the 5.0/Roadrunner, right? With the right setup he can unlock another 50whp from cams alone.
05-06-2014, 06:32 PM
#337
Some of you should see what these 5.0s are doing without the hate.
I am seeing a lot of guys going with Coyote swaps in Sn95s,New Edges, hell even 94-95 Cobras. There are already Coyote stock classes in NMRA too. Lot of guys who have the coin(that is only drawback sans the truck motor) give serious thoughts to the Coyote. Its capable of living a long time behind boost unlike an LS1/6. The LS truck motors is comparable since guys who want to boost find it appealing though. Coyote swaps are def on the rise and taking a big bite out of Ford guys who were considering LS power plants
I am seeing a lot of guys going with Coyote swaps in Sn95s,New Edges, hell even 94-95 Cobras. There are already Coyote stock classes in NMRA too. Lot of guys who have the coin(that is only drawback sans the truck motor) give serious thoughts to the Coyote. Its capable of living a long time behind boost unlike an LS1/6. The LS truck motors is comparable since guys who want to boost find it appealing though. Coyote swaps are def on the rise and taking a big bite out of Ford guys who were considering LS power plants
05-06-2014, 06:37 PM
#338
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
I don't think you guys realize cams in those engines will not make as large a difference as they do in ls engines. Go look for a cam much over .500 for a Coyote/rr. In a quick search it's hard to find them over. 500. Do they need major modifications to run over. 500~? I know comp has fazer limiters. Fact is 2mm is a large change where valve lift is considered. This is why I snicker at these guys talking about flow @.600. I have yet to see a cam for those engines to get them to .600.
05-06-2014, 06:38 PM
#339
7 Second Club
05-06-2014, 06:41 PM
#340
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Some of you should see what these 5.0s are doing without the hate.
I am seeing a lot of guys going with Coyote swaps in Sn95s,New Edges, hell even 94-95 Cobras. There are already Coyote stock classes in NMRA too. Lot of guys who have the coin(that is only drawback sans the truck motor) give serious thoughts to the Coyote. Its capable of living a long time behind boost unlike an LS1/6. The LS truck motors is comparable since guys who want to boost find it appealing though. Coyote swaps are def on the rise and taking a big bite out of Ford guys who were considering LS power plants
I am seeing a lot of guys going with Coyote swaps in Sn95s,New Edges, hell even 94-95 Cobras. There are already Coyote stock classes in NMRA too. Lot of guys who have the coin(that is only drawback sans the truck motor) give serious thoughts to the Coyote. Its capable of living a long time behind boost unlike an LS1/6. The LS truck motors is comparable since guys who want to boost find it appealing though. Coyote swaps are def on the rise and taking a big bite out of Ford guys who were considering LS power plants
coyotes are good engines.