darrensls1

The best way to minimize the risks is race at the track. Unfortunately most street racers with fast cars avoid the track because they don't want bars/cages in thier cars. It's also pretty safe to say most don't wear helmets and fire protective clothing either.

So by your logic it's ok to drink and drive. Statistically more drunk people make it home unscathed from bars then actually get in accidents or get pulled over. That's a fact. So should we just accept drunk driving as being ok?

Most people who rob a bank don't harm or kill anyone during the robbery. So bank robbing is ok too then?

This isn't a traffic violation. Like drunk driving, street racing is considered an actual crime.

I'll bet you every person who died while street racing said this to someone at some point. I understand that you want to justify to yourself why it's ok to break the law, risk your life and possibly risk others lives. But to say that street racing can be "safe enough" is wrong.

And it's just plain dumb.

They're not my questions. I'm not the OP.

If you don't like the subject of a particular thread then don't read it. But religion still has nothing to do with it.

That's nice. Unfortunately most cops and judges do not.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

Sure is the best way. Not arguing that.

Now you're using an analogy to blow the current discussion out of proportion. And unfortunately, I'm going to resort to this: there are even gray areas with drunk driving. This does not mean I condone drunk driving, but that it should be acknowledged that there's ****-faced drunk driving, and lightly inebriated drunk driving. This is why states have varying legal limits of intoxication, usually 0.8 BAC instead of 0.

Should we accept drunk driving? No. Do we as a society accept street racing? No. I'm not trying to change the momentum of the popular opinion here. I realize that people who can justify the risk of street racing enough to do it are a minority against the motorist population at large.

This is ridiculous. A bank robber directly infringes on the keepsake of other people and does so with no regard whatsoever for his victims. Street racing on an open street, with unlimited visibility and multiple cars for safety, on the other hand...

Sure. However, every person who has died while street racing tends to be the exception, not the rule. Otherwise, a good majority of the members who regularly post here would be ghosts. What you need to understand is that this is the general justification that most of us use. To say that we have no regard for ourselves or other people is insulting and ignorant. I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that most street races occur without incident (or accident, for that matter). Those aren't the ones you hear about, though. I understand that you're probably basing your opinions on the front page of local newspapers and the 9 o'clock news.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Street racing is as heinous a crime as drunk driving and robbing banks! Relax. You aren't addressing the Fast and the Furious type crowd here.

Oh, and it's not OK to break any laws. Don't put your assumptions in my mouth.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

Sure they do. They're called "wreckless driving" and "speed contest".

darrensls1

The legal limit is .8 so that is the measurement I'll use in this debate. It's a FACT that most people who drive home drunk (.8 or higher) make it home unscathed. But that doesn't make it right or help the victoms of the ones who didn't make it home.

That's just it. You can't justify it. Other then to yourself of course.

I'm sure that's a big comfort to all the innocent victoms families as well as the guilty ones. I'm sure it sounds great in eulogy.

Remember now that drunk driving accidents are also the exception and not the rule. But still perhaps it's a good idea not to do it anyway. But I understand that you're basing your opinion on your desire to justify your actions.

I don't have to put words into your mouth. You are doing that all on your own.

That's true. The cop on the scene makes the first decision. After that it's up to the DA and the judge to make the final decisions about your case. Point is there is no case to decide on if you're not breaking the law to begin with.

And personally I don't like the sound of either wreckless driving or speed contest on my record.

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

And if we never break 0.8, legally we are OK. So I could chug two beers, stake out for a while, and go for a (relatively) safe drive.

I could pull from the stop light a little quicker than normal, hit ten over the speed limit, pray that I'm ahead of the car next to me, and call it a done deal.

In either case, we did not measure the extremes of either incident. What's a FACT is that driving at 0.6 BAC without any kind of tolerance can potentially be just as dangerous on the road as somebody at the legal 0.8. Levels as low as 0.3 BAC are said to begin to impair judgment and concentration. Point is this: MOST people under the legal limit are probably OK to drive which is why the legal limit is established as such. The person can still be legally drunk. What I'm doing here is addressing the gray area: while the legal limit is 0.8, you can still be impaired the moment you hit 0.3, and you are still driving impaired. Does the law say or imply that it's OK to drive impaired but under 0.8? Doubt it. Does it make it OK? For most of us anyway - the accident risk for somebody at 0.3 BAC is significantly lower than that same person blowing a 0.8. Recommended to drive at all? Nope. Any badges chime in if you're present.

Now, apply your stupid analogy to the situation at hand. The FACT that I'm trying to push through here is that street racing comes in shades of gray; not that it's OK.

Let me give you another scenario. Don't worry, I'm going to be as clear and concise as I can just so you don't make slanderous assumptions. If you tell me you've never broken the speed limit, I'll believe you. Now, try to convince me that so much as 1/3th the population has never intentionally broken the speed limit at some point in their lives. Does that make it OK? Nope. Is it unsafe? Definitely, and the risk climbs exponentially the faster you go. Is it a crime? Depends, but usually no.

So, what am I justifying? That street racing does not have to end up with t-boned cars or cars hugging poles. It does not have to be taken to the extremes. It does not have to reach triple digits. It does not have to play Matrix with flowing traffic. It does not have to be fatally dangerous.

I'd bet that most accidents that happen in regard to street racing didn't have every precaution mentioned in this thread exercised.

Oh, and do not modify my audience. I'm speaking to you, not writing a eulogy. I've noticed that you're pretty evasive when it comes to being addressed head-on. I'll take this as an indirect admission of an ailing argument on your part. Two can play the assumption game.

Again, you don't understand jack ****. It's much easier for you to stuff words and inaccurate implications in my mouth than it is for you to man up and directly address what I'm saying. Please continue your crusade, and may your wayward analogies and ridiculous hyberbole fall on deaf ears.

Regardless of somebody's stance in this thread, it's blatantly obvious that you're making irrelevant connections between what I've said and what I supposedly condone.

If this is how you respond to being wrong, then I can see we're going nowhere.

darrensls1

Actually that is not 100% correct. I was in a long debate once with a state trooper who assures me that while .08 is the legal limit they can give a DUI to anyone with any amount of alcohol in thier system. They would just have to prove that you were unable to drive. So a 90 lb non drinking girl could be intoxicated and get a DUI even though she may have only blown a .04 or whatever.

Even under this unlikely scenario the cops can still ticket you for a "speed contest". From what I have heard you don't even need to exceed the speed limit to get it.

See above. It depends on the individuals weight and alcohol tolerance. Tecniqually you could be .01 and still get a DUI. Whether it holds up in court or not is another story. Bottom line is if you're drunk then don't drive. If you're on a public street don't race.

There are no shades of gray. It goes from bad (broke the law) to worse (broke the law and got caught) to catastrophic (broke the law and someone got hurt) to deadly (broke the law and someone died). I don't see it as gray. I see it as no good options.

There is a big difference between speeding (1-29 over) and racing one or more vehicles. If someone is doing 70 in a 55 they are committing a traffic violation and using more gas then necassary. If two cars race 55-140 they are committing a crime and risking thier lives.

You're trying to justify why it's ok to break the law. Most street races are roll races and most see triple digits. To try and say "well it's ok if I only street race from 0-60 or 20-80" is BS. It's not ok. That's like saying you're healthy because you smoke marlboro lights.

Taking "precautions" are not enough. Unless the precaution is racing at the track. Then it is enough.

You won't have an audience if you get killed in a street race. I rebutt all your arguments one by one. It doesn't get any more head on then that.

I don't expect your ears to be anything but deaf. I don't expect to convince a street racer that his/her actions are dangerous and illegal. But I won't back down and say it's ok either.

All I'm doing is stating the obvious. Street racing is illegal and it is dangerous. You're attempts to justify it by "taking precautions" doesn't change that.

willthethrill

damn u guys are hitting this topic ***** deep

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

However, being drunk at less than that limit is not common. Just as well, street racing and being wrecklessly dangerous is not always the case.

Truth. You can get ticketed for so little as a burnout on a green light. Don't know what this had to do with anything.

The definition of "drunk" is not concise. We know what we mean by it, but the level of drunkeness for one person is not the same for another. Again, one person engages in "street play", while the another may go pedal-to-the-metal through a busy arterial. Huge difference.

If you're drunk, don't drive. If you're an idiot, DEFINITELY don't street race.

I respect this.

I can't speak for our other members, but the reason why I'm defending this is because I'm the type of guy that rarely pulls past the triple digits as per your example. This is not to say that I've never been the idiot who has, but it is a rare occasion that even I shake my head at myself for.

Nope. Trying to justify why people DO break the law, not why it's OK. Please check into your nearest elementary school for a refresher on reading comprehension, because it hates you. Street racing is not OK, but some situations are less risky than others. Some situations are so risk-minimal to some of us that we "take the hit". I don't know how I can make this any clearer.

If I'm smoking lights, I'm taking in (or should be) less tobacco than a red. Thus, I am healthier. I've read some controversy over the issue of misleading advertisements in reference to lights/ultra lights, but that's aside from the point. There's street racing to the extremes, and street racing with a measure of common sense and respect to safety. Sure, smoking period is bad for you. However, IF you did, would you not choose the lesser of the two evils?

Clever. Your rebuttles are indirect and highly exaggerated or completely unrelated situations.

I know it's dangerous and illegal and I've always known that. So has most of the regular posters in kills. It's hard for you to accept the middle ground, I can tell.

I knew the obvious, and it's unfortunate that you cannot move past that point into something a little more articulate like what I'm really trying to illustrate. I believe that you can take precautions that make street racing SAFER than what is implied by its context. Sorry if that's not enough for you. Really, you may think I'm being facetious, but I am honest. I'm not sorry for the fact that you cannot get past that point, but rather, sorry that I'm impeding on your sense of safety.

You may believe that a street racer who knows what he's engaging in is dumber than the standard fare. However, you can trust that it'll be rare, if ever, for you to catch me indulging because you'll probably be three hours deep into sleep in the unwavering comfort of your home while I go for a midnight spin.

I at least am mindful to the risks and choose my battles accordingly.

02sleeperz28

iTrader: (26)

LT1PwrdZ

iTrader: (1)

Geez this thread is bad luck lol I got pulled over for the first time ever when it came to racing. I was lead car got off the highway and got back on going back to the start and i get nabbed by a tulsa pd. He obviously didnt clock me since at the top of 4th i know is jail or worse lol but he called me everyname in the book and let me go...close one...

darrensls1

By definition street racing is wreckless and dangerous. That's why it's against the law in the first place.

Anyone at .08 or higher should not drive. Anyone who feels drunk or impaired at all should not drive. Anyone who feels the need to race should do it at a track, period. That's not just my opinion but also that of local law enforcement, DA's and judges.

My example is to take it to the track. trying to convince me that you only street race at low speeds and under the safest of conditions is a waste of time. The only safe street race is the one that never happens.

It's dangerous and against the law. I really don't know how I can make that any clearer for you. Justifying lower risks is a BS way to justify to yourself why it's ok for you to do what you want regardless of the possible consequences.

Don't even use the term common sense with street racing. That's called an oxymoron. Because common sense says not to street race. Period.

And I was a smoker for a long time. Marlboro reds for 10 years, marlboro lights for 5 years and smoke free for the last 6.5 years. Back when I smoked I would try to justify smoking by saying at least they're lights. I would tell myself that I enjoyed it and it was much healthier then the reds. Eventually I realised I was just telling myself what I wanted to hear. Much in the way I believe you are doing here.

I don't think so. Drunk driving increases your risk for an accident and serious injury using a motor vehicle. Street racing increases your risk for an accident and serious injury using a motor vehicle. Both are against the law. Both can cause insurance increases or even terminations.

It's a good analogy IMO because one is considered both to some degree are considered socially acceptable although neither should.

This is just where we differ. You believe there is a middle ground and I know it really doesn't exist. But some day you might understand. I just hope it's not because you learned the hard way.

Being mindful of the risks does no one any good in the morgue. And trying to avoid a deer or dog at midnight is much harder then it is at noon for obvious reasons.

If you were really interested in lowing the risks then you would take it to a track.

The Manalishi

iTrader: (3)

DarrenLS1 and Nightwind, you both need to take a step back and look at it. Street racing while not smart and dangerous will continue. I no longer do it for the reasons I stated earlier in the thread. It is no stupider than drinking a couple and driving. It is no more dangerous than driving to work. People make a huge deal about it because it is illegal and the results are instantaneous. Drinking and driving is the same. People are killed driving to work more often that street racers get killed racing its just more graphic in street racing. People die in drunk driving accident more frequetly than street racing. Look up the facts an you will be surprised. More people are killed from driving while tired than street racing and drunk driving combined. Is it smart to street race probably not. I used to do it more seriously now I just do the impromtu race when it happens and it looks like its safe I go for it. Just agree to disagree and be safe when you drive to work.

willthethrill

^well said

NightWindDriftr

iTrader: (4)

The only thing you need to see is that there are such people as conscientious street racers.

Your point is as clear as a glass of water, which is what I feel like I've been responding to for the past two days. You cannot argue that there is high risk street racing and lower risk street racing. This is why you won't argue that front.

A street racer who does so knowing he isn't supposed to is a street racer who is paying attention. This is unlike your F&F stereotypical street racer. If you won't call it "common sense", call it what you will.

Congratulations on quitting. The irony is that I was thinking about starting, albeit jokingly to irk my wife. I have really tried, though.

You can't justify smoking by smoking lights. You CAN justify that you're supposedly healthier because you smoked lights over reds. Again, this is not a black-and-white situation. Sure, there's smoking and non-smoking. But then there's smoking lights, ultralights, cloves, and so on. Are they still smokers? Absolutely. But at least we're not talking about smoking crack or meth. They're smokers by definition, too.

A drunk driver is a hell of a lot more dangerous than an after-midnight street racer. Which one would you rather have pass you?

Point taken. However, in this day and age, drunk driving is not considered socially acceptable by any measure IMO. Street racing on the other hand, is the thought that plays in the back of our minds when we get paced by a purple Saturn with a wing that would make a shopping cart jealous.

And for me, street racing is what happens when I think it's safe. Which its often not, hence why I rarely do.

You constantly use the law to show that popular opinion aligns itself with your opinions. How about this: why are there varying fines for speeding depending upon the extent to which you've exceeded the speed limit? There must certainly be a middle ground, even though its labeled illegal.

Sometimes, and in some states, it's the difference between getting a ticket and spending the night behind iron. Why you refuse to acknowledge the gradient in-between, I don't know. It's there, whether you like it or not.

Here's a little test. If two cars pass you on both sides - one drunk and speeding, the other pushing over 100 mph - and had time to eyeball just one license plate to report, which one? Even if you would have chosen the racer, you would have demonstrated the concept of choosing the worse between the two. You can come up with some smart-assed answer or something heroic like "BOTH!", but one has to be worse than the other, period.

Someday, you might understand that street racing isn't going to just up and move to the nearest local track.

Careful risk management should keep you out of the morgue. At least this is what the military tells me, but what do they know? Hell, they only do about a million different risky things both in garrison and overseas anyway.

I understand that you don't subscribe to this and I won't push it any further than this post.

Really, the business of fast cars is inherently dangerous regardless of where you go. If you want to take risk management to the extremes, you better start occupying the front of the local public transit on your ride to work.

However, there is the obvious sense in what you've said that I cannot refute. Unfortunately, we're talking about racing on the street - not why the track is safer. I've spilled my mind on the matter throughout this thread and I've lost interest. Anything after this point from either of us will be a rehash of what was already said.

Drive safe.

darrensls1

You can't argue the facts. Lowing risks does NOT make it legal, safe or smart. Unless you're running on an abandoned air strip, during the day, wearing a helmet, with a roll bar (for 11.49 and faster cars) and have an ambulence near by then they are NOT low enough.

Common sense says DONT BREAK THE LAW! You're not going to win this argument. I have the law as well as actual common sense on my side and all you have is your need to convince yourself that your illegal actions are justified on yours. You can try to sugar coat that all you like but deep down you know I'm right.

Thanks. I did it cold turkey too. No patches, no gum, ect. I ran out of smokes one day and never went out to buy another pack. One of the best things I've ever done.

Again, you are trying to convince me (or more likely yourself) that there are certain levels of danger and risk that are acceptable. If you need danger and risk then try sky diving without a backup parachute. But common sense says you shouldn't smoke, drink and drive or street race.

None of the above! I've been passed and nearly hit by both and to be honest they both scared me/pissed me off the exact same. I know you want me to say "oh street racing is safer, smarter and down right good harmless fun". But there isn't a snowballs chance in hell.

It doesn't belong on public streets. This isn't just for my safety. It's also for yours.

It's not acceptable by the police obviously. But alcohol is constantly being over served at bars, restaurants, sporting events and hell even chuck E Cheese. So to the general public there is a certain level of acceptance for drinking in public and then driving home. Although it is refreshing to see more designated driver adds on TV.

Speeding is a traffic violation and street racing is an actual crime. Now that's not to say that a cop might not give someone a break and write up a lessor violation or even just a warning. If however you are doing 30 mph above the limit or more then speeding becomes a criminal act and rises to the level of street racing.

I don't recommend 30+ over the limit either in case you were wondering.

Why you refuse to accept that it's ALL BAD is beyond me. Again, there is no good and bad street racing. It starts as bad and just gets worse.

No one street races by themself. Otherwise it's actually not racing. So for that scenario to happen there would have to be a third car involved. Unless the drunk is one your racing in which case he's the double whammy.

Honestly, that scenerio would happen so fast that all anyone could do is try to get a license plate and then report both cars descriptions with whichever plate number they did get.

The key word there is "should". Not taking completely unnessesary risks is even better. I bet even the millitary would agree.

I hope that someday you understand what I have been saying and find the thrill of the track as I have. It's a lot safer, it's legal and it's a total blast. Well it was fun debating this with you and I wish you the best.

Good luck and stay safe.

Darren

Coy

iTrader: (4)

I think darrensls1 forgot what section he is in.

darrensls1

Lol. I can see why you might have that impression. But you need to understand that I am not the OP and this is not an actual kill story type thread. This threads title alone opened the door for this kind of debate.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

says the guy not even in the same time zone as ca.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

You're fighting a losing battle and half your arguments dont even make sense.


someone speeding at 70 in a 55 is doing a traffic violation and someone who is racing from 55 to 145 is street racing AND putting their life in danger. lol, yeah, and you couldnt hurt yourself at all going 70mph. I'll let you in on a little secret. Some people die at 70 mph crashes, while others live at 200mph crashes. It all depends on what happens. Speed doesn't kill, it's the abrupt stop.

Go preach on a anti street racing site, you're in the wrong forum. I'm not gonna visit a import forum, cause I don't like imports, it's really quite simple. Either you're simply here to start an argument, or some part of you wants to street race and thats why you're here, but you cant bring yourself to do it so you start posting bullshit like this...

darrensls1

They do make sense. It's just hard to admit it when you want to believe what you're doing is safe and justifiable.

You could die in a 45 mph crash but that's not the point. The higher the rate of speed the less time you have to react as well as having a longer braking distance. Plus racing adds what I call the "pride effect". Two people racing a close race often don't want to quit until very high speeds because thier pride doesn't want to withstand a loss. That's one of the reasons there are so many ricer fly bys.

All I post is the truth. But YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH! Sorry, that was one of my favorite movies and a classic line

I'm very happy racing at the track. And I'm not arguing, I'm debating. The difference is that I'm not slinging around personal insults or using excessive profanity. I'm simply and politely stating my points.

The truth is never bullshit. It's the lies that fall into that catagory