chub406

Hey guys. I have a weird question for ya. Iv'e only built full framed cars. I had a buddy that loved the 3rd gens but my understanding is, it takes alot of power to make these cars fast. Sub frame connecters will stiffen the car up just like a full framed car. Lastly, the torque arm suspenions are junk and takes alot more money and adjustng to get them to hook like a full framed 3 or 4 link. I've seen alot of quick cars on here and there are no fast 4th gens around here. Wouldnt take alot to build a sleeper but i know nothing about the rear suspensions. Are any of these ideas correct? lol I am almost sure its alot more money but could be wrong. Please school me on these. I know its like any rear end. Either a 9 inch,12 bolt, or dana. I am interested in the 650 and up wrhp. Please be kind guys! lol thanks!

mad_steve

iTrader: (2)

Well, like any other drag build, it will take a good chunk of change to get the car where it needs to be. This is especially true if you want the best of the best that is out for the 4th Gen F-body. One thing that you are wrong on, is how hard it is to get these cars to hook. Yes, it does take time, knowledge, and money, but that is no different than any other car. We make and sell a complete suspension package which includes torque arm, lower control arms, panhard rod, sub-frame connectors, shocks, springs, etc. We also sell suspension components from BMR, Wolfe Racecraft, and Racecraft Inc. Once someone buys suspension parts from us, we give them full tech support (free of charge) to help them to get their car where it needs to be. If you have any questions on pricing or availability, please give us a call. We will be more than happy to help you. Our phone number is 225-673-3533.

Thanks

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

I don't know about the negative "torque arm" comments. The successful oval track cars in my part of the country use a suspension very similar to what the 3rd and 4th get F-bodies have. They pull close to 2Gs in cornering force, as well as put down 750 HP.........

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

Like all forms of racing it takes money to go fast. The third and fourth gen camaros are one of the best bodies to use for a stock suspension race car. BMR has several and Madmans car is well into the 7 sevens on drag radials. The torque arm suspension works extremely well if you use the right parts and get it set up correctly. We also have all the necessary pieces to make your car do what you want it to. Our tech dept is available mon-fri 8:30am-6:00pm est. Here is a link to our site.

chub406

That does make sense. No disrespect on the torgue arm comments. Like I said, just letting you know what I had previously understood. I was searching through the suspension forum here and one person had commented that these suspensions were very forgiving and almost anyone can make these cars dead hook. Which was the opposite of what I had understood. lol When I dont know something, I ask. I have loved the look of the 4th gen transams but have been reluctant because of my previous understandings. This is going to sound dumb but with that suspension, Do they still have the upers and lower control arms? The torgue arm from the factory bolts to the tail shaft of the tranny but aftermarket ones move it dont they? lol Im just trying to get my info straight. plus it would open up alot newer possibilities of cars. Thanks guys!

The Batman

iTrader: (4)

no uppers but there is a panhead bar

UMI Sales

iTrader: (1)

Hello,
Yes there are two different types actually, There are Aftermarket Transmission Mounted torques arms. And there is a style called Tunnel Braced Mounted torque arms below there is a link to see what we have to offer. There is even adjustable Pan Hard Bars for better traction purposes. Hope I could help clear some things up for you!

http://umiperformance.com/products.php?category_id=130

If there is anything else that you have a question about feel free to ask!

Thanks
Brad

chub406

wow. now im getting confused lol i looked at your parts. what is the advantage to moving it off the tranny? what does the panhard par do? im used to a 3 link. sounds like it has the same set up but with a panhard bar and torgue arm? im going to keep looking on here. im sure i can find some pcs to look at. being a subframe car, does the subframe connecters tie it up solid or do they all still twist? thanks!

Greekey

iTrader: (3)

A panhard bar centers your rear end. When someone lowers a vehicle, an adjustable panhard bar is needed to recenter the rear tires.

chub406

ok. Im starting to understand. so instead of uppers. the pan hard bar bolt to the frame and the rear bolts to the panhard bar? if that sounds right. something I just read that has me confused. i would have a 10 point to tie eveything together but they said the t top cars and hard tops used the same chell, there is just thin sheet metal on the hard top cars. now even with the cage. a hardtop car is going to twist less than a ttop car, right? even though its thin sheetmetal. there is still more bracing. it sounds good on paper. lol but is that true to what you guys are seeing?

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

In order to keep manufacturing cost down, as many similar parts are used between hardtop cars and t-toppers. The roof panel isn't that big a structural piece as it is in some other cars, put as you put it, every little bit does help. A cage, naturally, will help a LOT.

Since the F-bod has only lower control arms, rather than also having the "splayed" upper arms of it's other coil sprung GM cousins, something has to laterally locate the rear end under the car, as well as keeping the rear end from rotating, as driving and braking forces are applied. The torque arm prevents the rotation, and the panhard bar prevents side-to-side motion.

chub406

that makes sense to me. with the wy they work. do have a pic of a panhard bar on a car. ive looked for pics. just to see how it attatches. so am i correct in saying that even with a cage. a ttop car is still going to twist more than a hardtop? it would be easier putting a cage in a ttop car. lol i seen a few vids where a ttop car comes off the line and twists so hard that it shattered the ttops.

BMR Sales2

iTrader: (40)

PHB on the car with the relocation kit.

mad_steve

iTrader: (2)

If you mini-tub, and adjustable panhard is needed then also.

chub406

i see. so the panhard bar bolts from frame to frame. then to brackets on the top side of the rear end. i could see how that could be better than uppers cause you are bracing the whole rear end and displaces the energy across the whole rear end. if i am wrong on something. let me know. lol so compared to a 3 link. its just another type and they each have their advantages and disadvantages, or do you guys think one is better than the other? i know im asking alot of stuff. lol what about mini tubbing then? on a full frame, i would just notch it but on a sub frame, what changes. thanks for all the help guys!

leadfoot4

iTrader: (1)

Not quite. In the BMR supplied picture, their parts, the two red powdercoated parts, are doing two different things. The "relocation kit" provides extra clearance for a HP exhaust, as well as lowering the pivot point of the panahrd bar. Sometimes this is necessary when altering the ride height of the car, as it's ideal if the bar is paralell to the road, when the car is at ride height. The car, from the factory, does have a similar brace.

The panhard bar itself, attaches to the right hand side of the chassis, and to the axle, on the left side of the car. The picture above is a tad confusing, as the panhard bar and brace appear to blend into one, at the lower left of the picture.

chub406

Ya. that was throwing me off for a sec but once i relized that , it made more sence, so i was correct on that part then. right? it bolts from one "frame" to the other. then a bracket on each side to the rear end so its all connected. im starting to understand this. especially knowing the names and what the parts do. i can understand why these are more expensive cause of the extra parts. now i know it bolts to the tranny. is there a bracket on the tailshaft or is it on the tranny crossmember?

ScrapSilicon

iTrader: (3)

now you're referencing the torque arm .. mounted to trannymounted to rearendright side view mounted to transmission ..now this takes the ta off the tranny's tailshaft

chub406

so unless you relocate the ta. it bolts to the tailshaft. wouldnt there be twist in the torque from the motor? couldnt you break a tailshaft if you launched hard enough or would it take an axle out first? i know the 7.5's are junk. especially dealing with g-bodys

ScrapSilicon

iTrader: (3)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...rque-arms.html