Turnin20s

iTrader: (12)

I was looking at the Fays2 kit and then back to a few places I ordered parts from when I was into lowered trucks and found a DIY watts kit, still over $300 but super nice looking kit. But that got me thinking about building my own. The only reason I'm not really considering it, is that I am running true duals and have a new setup in my head, but I think the watts will ruin all of the room I currently have for exhaust.

But anyway I'm not downing on anyones kits, but has anyone attempted to build their own watts setup? If so please post pics, or if not hopefully I'll get around to showing off pics of one if I ever build one LOL

BTW pics of the "universal" kit

camaroextra

iTrader: (10)

very interesting

Turnin20s

iTrader: (12)

I kind of thought so, the only thing that I'm really concerned about is the clerence between the rear axle and gas tank, but I think after the PHB is removed and all of the excess brackets that wouldn't be used any more, there might be enough room to build something.

I think it would be a fun project, but I do quite a bit of fabricating on the side. I already have everything pictured in my head, but its just a matter of getting the money to get the required materials

This winter I'm doing an 8.8 swap with a mini ladder bar setup, so mabye I'll do the watts too.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Good luck with that.... It's not as simple as you think. Angles are important, the arms must be parallel to each other or at exactly opposite angles. Where are you going to attach that stuff? That kit has no provision for adjustable roll center height like a Fays2 does. Let's say you get it on, what is the RC height going to be/end up? What swaybars will work with it? Any? All? Some?

Super nice looking? Well, ok... I don't really think so. But I guess if you consider your time/labor/welding equipment free then it's less money. But for $300+ you are half way to a Fays2 that is bolt-in, and adjustable. And has things like billet aluminum propellors, aluminum arms, double bearings in the propellor, powdercoated brackets, etc.

IF that was $100, then maybe.... but @ over 3 bills?

transwiz

iTrader: (26)

It might be better to spring for the $650.00 for the fays2 watts link.Talk somebody else
into buying this kit and see if after he installs if it's a pile of junk.I wouldn't take the chance if it was me.

Turnin20s

iTrader: (12)

Well I was expecting Sam to step in, I have fabrication skills and do alot of projects on the side. I understand how the watts works and how the angles have to be set up. The biggest complaint that I have with the fays2 watts is how big it is, and the fact that instead of welding the mounts to the axle you clamp them.....that seems cheap to me. Just my opinion.

I know that the fays2 kit is a quality part, and you are the one selling it and you know what your talking about. I just know that I can build something foe half the cost. I was just using the above pic for a reference, I was planning on putting something together for alot less than $300.

I guess I'll let you guys know how it works when I get it done, but I have a few more little projects before the watts will happen.

Thanks for the input though, I appreciate it.

Trans Am Jam

iTrader: (7)

welding it in place does make sense....

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

A few points.

Yes, I sell the Fays2 links. I also use them, on both my cars..... So it's not like this is some story.

Bolting seems "cheap" to you? Well, nobody is telling you that you can't weld the brackets to the axles--though there is no reason to as they have never slipped even under the stress we put on them with the g-levels we pull.

Regarding the size: It's that "big" because the frame needs to be big to keep things from flexing. I don't know about you, but I somehow prefer that the device I use for lateral location actually properly locates things without flexing. In fact part of what makes a Watts superior to a PHB is getting ride of geometry changes which flex certainly adds back

Also, the frame isn't very heavy--it's all tube not solid stock. If fact a Watts kit complete, in the box with every nut, bolt, washer, EVERYTHING is about 27 pounds in total. Some of that weight is offset by removing the stock PHB and brace. More is offset because you don't use every nut sent (there are setup nuts and the permanent ones with nylock to lock them in), and you don't use the cardboard boxes either.

Hey man... You asked. I'm just telling. If you take the jaded notion that it's only because I sell the Fays2, I don't know what to tell you. I think it's beyond silly to spend half as much, ignoring labor costs, to get a universal kit that is substandard vs. what's already around in direct fit form. But there will always be those who want to do their own thing. For instance there are folks who won't use a supercharger to get their power, but instead opt to spend much more time and money to make a NA engine make similar power--and be more temperamental too.

camaroextra

iTrader: (10)

The plot thickens. . . .

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

It does? Why? This isn't a fight or pissing match. It's a few guys discussing parts.

I'm sorry to say that's the problem with folks these days. Everyone thinks there is a fight whenever I don't say "duh... ok" to whatever they ask. That's not my job, at least the way I see it. Seems more folks want the dumb, standard answer. I hope that's not the case, but I have noticed an awful lot of folks biting on the quick blurbs and sound bite time information....

camaroextra

iTrader: (10)

I was just kidding sam

I was doing some research and I read that the watts link doesnt truly travel in a strait vertical line through the center, is this true?

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

No it's not true. At the very ends of the theoretical range there is a slight side to side movement. But we can't get there, the shock length limits the travel downward or in droop before it happens, and the bumpstops and body would stop it before you get there on the compression side.

Then again, even if it did happen in actual use (it doesn't), it's still superior to a PHB which has an arc motion always....

Mike454SS

iTrader: (4)

I think the universal kits are more geared toward the mini trucker/air bagged crowd. They're not after handling, and most of them don't care where the roll center is, they simply want a suspension that will keep the tires from rubbing any part of the truck if they're on the ground, or if they're 3 feet up in the air.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

*ding* I think Mike hit the nail squarely on the head with that summation.

transwiz

iTrader: (26)

The fays2 watts link is deffinately worth the money you spend.You have to install one on your car to really understand.The fact that Sam uses them on his own cars tells you something.When it come's to suspension Sam knows his stuff.It's not my car and not my decision.

Lonnies Performance

iTrader: (16)

The Watts made a huge difference in my car.

As for space, it clears a huge factory muffler without problem.
If you are trying to clear duals, it may be close depending on where the left pipe comes through.

From this view, you can see the drop above the mounting bracket that may give you some exhaust room. I'll see if I can find a picture of this area on the car.



Here is a pic of it on the car.

ssam98

iTrader: (5)

is the watts link good for drag racing.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

It's fine to drag race on. Doesn't really do much to help traction itself, but can make the car more stable at the big end (provided you are on something like a drag radial and not a bias-slick).

Mike454SS

iTrader: (4)

Sam, do you think you guys will ever make one for the 77-96 B-Body?

Big_Bird_WS6

iTrader: (7)

well i just got a watts link. And i agreed with Turnin20s the watts is Way to big. from the pictures it looks like it weights a ton.

Sam. - when you take off the brace and a aftermarket panhard, How much weight was added with the Fays Watt setup.

i went with Eric form MWC watts setup. i lost 4lbs of wieght by changing. and his works on a 9" rear. and works on a 9" rear with a back brace. I like fays is a few years back in time. theres dont work on 9" at all. how can you make something for the f-body when 90% of M6 and A4 guys that break there 10bolt go to a 9"

WELL tried posting pictures and everytime i did it said i was over the .jpg aloud limit. but picutres are only 116 and 89 and limit is 488. os IDK.