Fays 2 Watts Link
07-29-2010, 05:27 PM
#42
Here is my insight.
The kit isn't "pricey"
for what you get. Secondly different swaybars and mount brackets sometimes use different u-bolts. The car the Watts was developed on had a 12 bolt in it with 3" tube and bigger u-bolts and swaybar mount brackets. GM stuff is smaller. There are spacers with the kit, some folks find they work fine, some don't.
My adjustable rear bar comes with the bigger clamps and brackets in part because we meant it for us with the Watts link (though you don't need to). My standard rear bar uses GM's u-bolt in comparison.
The kit isn't "pricey"
for what you get. Secondly different swaybars and mount brackets sometimes use different u-bolts. The car the Watts was developed on had a 12 bolt in it with 3" tube and bigger u-bolts and swaybar mount brackets. GM stuff is smaller. There are spacers with the kit, some folks find they work fine, some don't. My adjustable rear bar comes with the bigger clamps and brackets in part because we meant it for us with the Watts link (though you don't need to). My standard rear bar uses GM's u-bolt in comparison.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
07-29-2010, 10:03 PM
#44
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sam, do you recommend the same 67-73 mustang u-bolts as jim?
or do you have another part number and company?
i found u-bolts at advance auto this afternoon, one set was 3-1/4" and was set was 3-1/2" center to center. of course jim specifys 3-3/8"
thanks
tony
or do you have another part number and company?
i found u-bolts at advance auto this afternoon, one set was 3-1/4" and was set was 3-1/2" center to center. of course jim specifys 3-3/8"
thanks
tony
07-29-2010, 11:54 PM
#45
So standard sway bar buyers of yours are assumed not to want to use a Watts Link? Seems like an odd assumption, as I cannot imagine many times needing or wanting to adjust the rear sway bar, except maybe for competition (rare in my case). It seems both sways should use the bigger parts. I would like to hear in what situations adjusting the rear sway bar has been beneficial, and why? I also find it odd that the front sway would not also match the rear in being chrome molly, if one bought the adjustable rear.
What kind of rear do you have in your F-Body, just curious?
What kind of rear do you have in your F-Body, just curious?
Here is my insight.
The kit isn't "pricey" for what you get. Secondly different swaybars and mount brackets sometimes use different u-bolts. The car the Watts was developed on had a 12 bolt in it with 3" tube and bigger u-bolts and swaybar mount brackets. GM stuff is smaller. There are spacers with the kit, some folks find they work fine, some don't.
My adjustable rear bar comes with the bigger clamps and brackets in part because we meant it for us with the Watts link (though you don't need to). My standard rear bar uses GM's u-bolt in comparison.
The kit isn't "pricey"
for what you get. Secondly different swaybars and mount brackets sometimes use different u-bolts. The car the Watts was developed on had a 12 bolt in it with 3" tube and bigger u-bolts and swaybar mount brackets. GM stuff is smaller. There are spacers with the kit, some folks find they work fine, some don't. My adjustable rear bar comes with the bigger clamps and brackets in part because we meant it for us with the Watts link (though you don't need to). My standard rear bar uses GM's u-bolt in comparison.
07-30-2010, 12:53 AM
#46
The watts link is worth every dollar you spend on it.It is way beyond the panhard rod.
Every install is different on every car.Grinding the brake clamps isn't that hard.Just take your time.I only used one of the spacers with the stock u clamps.Buying this was one of the best investments I ever made to my T/A. Ask anybody who has one and they will tell
you that they really work.Call up Sam Strano and talk to him about it.He is really a straight up guy.Jim fay is really cool too.
Every install is different on every car.Grinding the brake clamps isn't that hard.Just take your time.I only used one of the spacers with the stock u clamps.Buying this was one of the best investments I ever made to my T/A. Ask anybody who has one and they will tell
you that they really work.Call up Sam Strano and talk to him about it.He is really a straight up guy.Jim fay is really cool too.
07-30-2010, 11:35 AM
#47
The issue is going to be your rear bar u-brackets.... the u-bolt is one thing, but anything a lot bigger than stock won't fit the u-bracket with most bars. I can supply a rear mount kit with both the u-bolt and the appropriate bracket/bushing.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
07-30-2010, 11:49 AM
#48
So standard sway bar buyers of yours are assumed not to want to use a Watts Link? Seems like an odd assumption, as I cannot imagine many times needing or wanting to adjust the rear sway bar, except maybe for competition (rare in my case). It seems both sways should use the bigger parts. I would like to hear in what situations adjusting the rear sway bar has been beneficial, and why? I also find it odd that the front sway would not also match the rear in being chrome molly, if one bought the adjustable rear.
What kind of rear do you have in your F-Body, just curious?
What kind of rear do you have in your F-Body, just curious?
I'm supposed to supply more parts, parts that aren't necessary on any car without a Watts link (which is most), just in case they might use one someday? These things cost money, and fwiw, weigh slightly more because they are bigger than the GM mount bolt setup which works just fine.
Liberty, you seem to be trolling for either free knowledge, or nit-picking. Given the way you answer in some of your posts, I have to think it's the latter more than the former.
Let me point out one thing to you. Parts descriptions do not cover every single detail, I don't have the time to do that. At least not do that and be available to talk to folks and spend time in forums too. The bars were developed at different times, and they undergo very different stresses. In case you haven't noticed, the front of the car is way heavier, and the front bar has a lot more load put on it.
As for the situations you'd adjust a rear bar--there isn't any one specific one. Asking that is like asking why someone makes any tweak to their setup. If you want or need more rear roll stiffness, you can adjust the bar stiffer. If you want or need it to be softer, you can do that too. You have options. If you don't understand how or why, that's one thing, but you seem to imply you have a very good understanding of chassis dynamics, and if that's the case you should know when/why you'd want to play with your rear roll stiffness.
Generally cars with bigger rear tires and/or a lower a roll center will want the rear roll stiffness relatively higher than car with a higher RC and equal size tires. But there are a number of factors.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
07-30-2010, 12:30 PM
#49
Sorry you don't like the way I ask, or type of questions being asked, but they are all genuine (not nit-picking). I also respect your, and other folks experience and knowledge, and try to learn more.
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
With all due respect, you seem to think that there is an easy answer for a lot of things....
I'm supposed to supply more parts, parts that aren't necessary on any car without a Watts link (which is most), just in case they might use one someday? These things cost money, and fwiw, weigh slightly more because they are bigger than the GM mount bolt setup which works just fine.
Liberty, you seem to be trolling for either free knowledge, or nit-picking. Given the way you answer in some of your posts, I have to think it's the latter more than the former.
Let me point out one thing to you. Parts descriptions do not cover every single detail, I don't have the time to do that. At least not do that and be available to talk to folks and spend time in forums too. The bars were developed at different times, and they undergo very different stresses. In case you haven't noticed, the front of the car is way heavier, and the front bar has a lot more load put on it.
As for the situations you'd adjust a rear bar--there isn't any one specific one. Asking that is like asking why someone makes any tweak to their setup. If you want or need more rear roll stiffness, you can adjust the bar stiffer. If you want or need it to be softer, you can do that too. You have options. If you don't understand how or why, that's one thing, but you seem to imply you have a very good understanding of chassis dynamics, and if that's the case you should know when/why you'd want to play with your rear roll stiffness.
Generally cars with bigger rear tires and/or a lower a roll center will want the rear roll stiffness relatively higher than car with a higher RC and equal size tires. But there are a number of factors.
I'm supposed to supply more parts, parts that aren't necessary on any car without a Watts link (which is most), just in case they might use one someday? These things cost money, and fwiw, weigh slightly more because they are bigger than the GM mount bolt setup which works just fine.
Liberty, you seem to be trolling for either free knowledge, or nit-picking. Given the way you answer in some of your posts, I have to think it's the latter more than the former.
Let me point out one thing to you. Parts descriptions do not cover every single detail, I don't have the time to do that. At least not do that and be available to talk to folks and spend time in forums too. The bars were developed at different times, and they undergo very different stresses. In case you haven't noticed, the front of the car is way heavier, and the front bar has a lot more load put on it.
As for the situations you'd adjust a rear bar--there isn't any one specific one. Asking that is like asking why someone makes any tweak to their setup. If you want or need more rear roll stiffness, you can adjust the bar stiffer. If you want or need it to be softer, you can do that too. You have options. If you don't understand how or why, that's one thing, but you seem to imply you have a very good understanding of chassis dynamics, and if that's the case you should know when/why you'd want to play with your rear roll stiffness.
Generally cars with bigger rear tires and/or a lower a roll center will want the rear roll stiffness relatively higher than car with a higher RC and equal size tires. But there are a number of factors.
07-30-2010, 12:52 PM
#50
Sorry you don't like the way I ask, or type of questions being asked, but they are all genuine (not nit-picking). I also respect your, and other folks experience and knowledge, and try to learn more.
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
Why don't they include the longer bolts? Probably because there are a lot of rear-end options for the 4th gen cars, and it's not really cost-effective to send every u-bolt combination required for each specific axle tube OD. This is car modding; not everything comes in color-coded kits with easy-mode installation instructions.
If you want to learn, fine, but ask pertinent questions instead of making pointless comments. Instead of saying, "Well I think this is how it should be, what possible other situation could ever require something different?", be humble. Honey and vinegar.
/soapbox
07-30-2010, 01:06 PM
#51
I don't mind answering questions, but Element is correct. You tend to say things in a very pointed "I know best" sort of way, veiling them in questions. It comes across exactly as he pointed out, that you know better.
Like life, everyone has an opinion, that's fine. But over the years it's become clear to me that many think this business is much more simple than it really is. I'm a gearhead racer. I don't have every answer. I have a lot of experience, and sometimes my answers aren't techie enough for some engineer types and they think I'm a moron. Ok, the proof is in the pudding.
Example: I just had a guy with a Cobra replica soften his springs a lot. He's an engineer, and "calculated" what he needed. The car sucked. Had no grip, and wasn't forgiving at all. He asked or help, and I told him what I'd do and why (no grip, etc). He bucked me for weeks. When he relented, and did it, the car was way better (by his own admission). When he asked how I picked the rates, I told him it's an art... combination of test driving, knowing what was there to start with, the weight of the car, and gut feel. All his friends think that insane (all number guys too).... but the car is working way better.
Testing is part of what I do. Is the same setting on a swaybar going to be perfect for everyone? No, which is why we did an adjustable and allow you the option of a known part or to play around. Same with the shocks, not everyone will run the same setting. You can't get THE answer, you might get a consensus.... and you might get my opinion, but you seem to be searching for something that doesn't exist.
Like life, everyone has an opinion, that's fine. But over the years it's become clear to me that many think this business is much more simple than it really is. I'm a gearhead racer. I don't have every answer. I have a lot of experience, and sometimes my answers aren't techie enough for some engineer types and they think I'm a moron. Ok, the proof is in the pudding.
Example: I just had a guy with a Cobra replica soften his springs a lot. He's an engineer, and "calculated" what he needed. The car sucked. Had no grip, and wasn't forgiving at all. He asked or help, and I told him what I'd do and why (no grip, etc). He bucked me for weeks. When he relented, and did it, the car was way better (by his own admission). When he asked how I picked the rates, I told him it's an art... combination of test driving, knowing what was there to start with, the weight of the car, and gut feel. All his friends think that insane (all number guys too).... but the car is working way better.
Testing is part of what I do. Is the same setting on a swaybar going to be perfect for everyone? No, which is why we did an adjustable and allow you the option of a known part or to play around. Same with the shocks, not everyone will run the same setting. You can't get THE answer, you might get a consensus.... and you might get my opinion, but you seem to be searching for something that doesn't exist.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
07-30-2010, 01:12 PM
#52
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Sorry you don't like the way I ask, or type of questions being asked, but they are all genuine (not nit-picking). I also respect your, and other folks experience and knowledge, and try to learn more.
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
I am considering your sways, but I still have questions, and I am asking them -- still not really getting satisfactory answers, IMHO. Regardless of what someone knows, or thinks they know, most can always learn from someone else, hence the request for scenarios when folks use the stiffer rear settings and why.
I am also considering a Watts Link, likely after the sways.
Looking to learn more, yes, and I did just buy Koni SAs from you...
You sound like your calling him out on things as if you have knowledge but your asking for info about the same things
07-30-2010, 01:57 PM
#53
A quick note about my swaybars, though this is really getting off track.
Of all the bars out there for this car, I can't think of any others that have and continue to win things. And if you are, for some reason, interested in other bars, I have other brands. I prefer the bars be hollow, and of the 35/22 combination of size. Bigger in the rear tends to make the car too loose. For those that might want to drag race, or have a need or want for more rear bar, then we offer not only my adjustable rear, but Hotchkis too.
Of all the bars out there for this car, I can't think of any others that have and continue to win things. And if you are, for some reason, interested in other bars, I have other brands. I prefer the bars be hollow, and of the 35/22 combination of size. Bigger in the rear tends to make the car too loose. For those that might want to drag race, or have a need or want for more rear bar, then we offer not only my adjustable rear, but Hotchkis too.
__________________
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
www.stranoparts.com --814-849-3450
Results matter. Talk is cheap. We are miles beyond the success anyone else has had with the 4th gens, and C5, C6, C7 Corvettes,
10 SCCA Solo National Championships, 2008 Driver of they Year, 2012 Driver of Eminence
13 SCCA Pro Solo Nationals Championships
2023 UMI King of the Mountain Champion
07-30-2010, 08:08 PM
#55
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Just started talking with Sam a few weeks ago. I was referred to him by another site sponsor. (How cool is that.....site sponsors helping each other and ultimately helping the buyer) Anywho, Sam hooked me up with a set of Strano Springs and a set of Koni DA shocks.
BUT, he only did that after taking the time over the telephone to determine what I was trying to accomplish with my car and what mods had I already done. Only then did he recommend the parts above.
It's apparent Sam is a knowledgeable and straight shooter. He's not just trying to sell you something to make a quick buck. God Bless him for that. Plus he knows this stuff.
I plan on purchasing a Watts Link from him within a week or so. And happy to do so. I really get/got the sense he cares about who/what he sells.
Keep up the good work, Sam. Based on what I've read on various threads, you're a well respected, knowledgable, caring sponsor.
BUT, he only did that after taking the time over the telephone to determine what I was trying to accomplish with my car and what mods had I already done. Only then did he recommend the parts above.
It's apparent Sam is a knowledgeable and straight shooter. He's not just trying to sell you something to make a quick buck. God Bless him for that. Plus he knows this stuff.
I plan on purchasing a Watts Link from him within a week or so. And happy to do so. I really get/got the sense he cares about who/what he sells.
Keep up the good work, Sam. Based on what I've read on various threads, you're a well respected, knowledgable, caring sponsor.
03-04-2011, 10:59 AM
#60
Merim123, I only had a couple of times to play with it last fall after the install. On one particular occasion I took the car to the closest cloverleaf and really pushed it hard. The WATTS link definitely changes the characteristics of the car in a positive manner. You can push suspension to new heights with a WATTS 
I have a complete install thread on my setup, here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...9-14-10-a.html
I have a complete install thread on my setup, here:https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...9-14-10-a.html
Last edited by 96silverram; 03-31-2011 at 12:11 PM.