Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

THIS BAD?

Last night I found myself in a spirited run with a BMW Z4 and a modded Lexus IS 350 (the extent of the mods is unknown, but it sounded pretty good) and at 125 mph it feels like the brake pedal is almost completely dead. I felt like the car would've slowed quicker by compression braking with the motor (not that I think that's a good solution). Are they really that bad or do you think something is just up with my setup (stock brakes, stock pads)? My only other basis for comparison is a C4 Corvette with bone stock brakes and at those speeds the car would slow violently if you stomped on the brakes at 125 mph.

I'm upgrading to track pads for a trip to Road Atlanta in June and after that event I'll go with a set of Hawk HPS for the street. I'm sure that will be a solid improvement, however after last night I'm a little concerned there might be some greater underlying issue here. I couldn't imagine Chevy would produce a car capable of 150 - 160 mph speeds where stopping would require simply running into something!

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Have you kept up with the maintenance? The stock pads and rotors aren't that great, but the rest of the stuff works pretty well as long as it is in good working order.

pro94lt

at 125 you can heat them up really really quick, I've found one very hard stop from 110 or so and mine are pretty hot and fading.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Do a full fluid flush if you haven't already, its usually pretty nasty after some years on DD duty.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

No there not that bad...maybe you have a small leak or a bad caliper..

jsteele90

iTrader: (13)

never had a problem with my brakes. just get some good pads and flush the old oem fluid out of there for some good high temp stuff

Arctic2002ss

Yes, the brake pads can be that bad. Wagner Quiet Stops had that affect for me. Better pads solved it so you are on the right path. Flush the system with higher temp fluid (at least DOT4) too.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

I ran Wagner Thermoquiets on mine for a while...they were very quiet, except for my screaming and cussing when the damn things weren't stopping my car fast enough.

01formula6

iTrader: (7)

I'd completely flush the fluid and see how things feel then. Valvoline synthetic fluid seems to be working fine for me in street use, plus it's cheap and available everywhere. You can try ATE Superblue if you plan on tracking the car.

Brakemotive

iTrader: (73)

If your pedal is firm but the car just isn't slowing down it's an indication that your pads are losing friction - solution is a pad with a higher MOT or higher friction coefficient. If your pedal went mushy it's an indication that your fluid has too much water/air in it. When the fluid temp gets over 212* any moisture in it will turn to vapor and result in loss of pressure at the caliper.

Like others have said, flush your fluid with some high quality DOT 3 or 4 and upgrade your pads.

Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

Thanks so much for your responses. I'm definitely upgrading the pads and in preparation of my track event I will flush the fluids out and go with the ATE Superblue. Should I buy the DOT 4? (Forgive me because I have no idea what the difference is between the DOT 3 and DOT 4).

Brakemotive

iTrader: (73)

DOT 4 has a higher dry boiling point but is affected more by moisture, so the wet boiling point usually drops off quicker than DOT 3. That's not a problem if you're good about maintenance. ATE super blue is a good fluid for the price.

FYI DOT 3 and 4 can be mixed as they are both glycol based, DOT 5 is silicone and cannot be mixed nor should it be used for any performance application (IMO) and DOT 5.1 is also glycol based and has the highest boiling point of all both wet and dry. The main difference in the 3/4/5.1 is the detergents used in them.

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

DOT4 rated has a higher dry boiling point as above. The wet boiling point of DOT 4 is higher than the wet BP of DOT 3 but that difference is less than the boiling point difference when new. Valvoline's synthetic brake fluid is labeled as DOT 3 and 4 for whatever reason... it is locally available and that is what I have in my car right now. ATE Super Blue is good as is their Type 200 amber. Some people like to alternate those because it is easier to see when you have flushed the old fluid out as their is a more pronounced color change.

Hawk makes some good pads. HPS is a good all around choice for street and light track work. The HP+ are more track oriented than street oriented so more dust / noise, work better at higher temp, etc. I like my Satisfied GranSport 6's but they are getting harder to find apparently.

Midnight02

iTrader: (8)

Thanks guys. Took a look at the stock pads closely tonight and there doesn't appear to be much "pad" left. I'm thinking that may be the issue and the pad replacement will do the trick.

Going with a Hawk DTC-30 front + HP Plus rear setup for the track event in June, however I think I may pick up a cheap set of HPS until then. Any reason why buying a set of lightly used pads would be a bad idea as long as they're all wearing consistently?

tremiles

At less than $100 an axle for high quality pads, brakes are too important to go cheap with used pads.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Im finally getting some miles on my Hawk HPS front pads. Very first impression with DD for a week or so.......More brake dust then normal. Pads feel good during regular driving. Haven't hammered on them yet.

Ghostintheshell

I have had two trans am's now.

Both have stock brakes - and I can tell you that they aren't anything special.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Anyone who thinks 4th gen brakes suck needs to drive an old car for a couple days. $20 says you rear end someone.

Carlos01SS

iTrader: (4)

Truly the stock brakes are not bad.
great sticky tires and a more aggressive pad should do the trick, also changing the fluid would help as well.

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that the Achilles heel for the stock brakes are the shitty rotors!!!
98-02 rotors are shitty, they tend to warp when they overheat, you spend time re-surfacing them and having to get new pads.

You'll know if they're warped when you hit the brakes at higher speeds and your steering wheel starts vibrating LOL!!!

If you're gonna spend the money to get better pads, get new rotors from Vatozone, WAY better iron composition than the factory rotors.
Even better rotors are the OEM replacements from Brembo!
More expensive but worth it.
.02

HAZ-Matt

iTrader: (8)

And yet I have driven 4th Gen Firebirds for 11 yrs now and not "warped" a rotor In that time.

It comes down mainly to pad choice and driving style. Especially what you do after you heat up the brakes, and if your pads are adequate for that temperature.

I do agree that Autozone does in fact offer decent rotors for these cars, I put some on my previous Firebird. As far as the Brembos, they are decent too, but perhaps not quite as great as they used to be.