z-maro

iTrader: (18)

I was looking at getting some SFC's and was wondering what everyone would recommend. I have read here that you have to remove your interior when you weld in SFC's, is that true? If so that throws weld in's out of the question. So here are the options I am considering:

1. J&M 3pt. weld in http://www.CamaroPartsOutlet.com/83435/1.html

2. Boxed 2pt. bolt in

3. Tubular 2pt. bolt in

For the 2pt's I would go with whichever brand is the cheapest, and could always weld them in later if needed.

So what are the advantages of 3pt. vs. 2pt. and boxed vs. tubular? I don't want to get into the "do they even make a difference" argument, but wondering if 3pt. are overkill for a street car that may never see a drag strip. My main reason for getting them is as insurance against the rippled quarter panels, and doors that don't close right.

Thanks

WS.666

iTrader: (28)

I currently have UMI 3-points. The third point bolts to your tunnel brace mounts. This makes the car VERY rigid, even more so if you have a tunnel mounted torque arm.

I've never removed any interior when welding in both sets of SFCs...I started with 2-point SFCs, then replaced them with 3-points when I got a tunnel mounted torque arm.

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

When saying 3pt's "make the car VERY rigid" do you mean almost too much for street driving? Overall would you recommend SFC's for street driving, how do they effect the ride quality? And from your experiences with both sets, which would you recommend for the type of driving I have tried to describe?

Thanks for the help!

JD_AMG

Im not going to get into the "do they make a difference" argument, but I can tell you personally they don't do anything for 1/4 panel dimples or doors not lining up. 1/4 panel dimples are often from cars getting wheel hop, which shakes the rear quarter panels, which the SFCs do NOT brace at all (they only brace up to the front of the rear control arms). Many have installed them and still get quarter panel dimples.
Doors not lining up are from the doors being overly heavy on weak hinges. The chassis stays strait, the doors actually sag.
If you want to buy them then by all means go for it, they won't hurt you (other than adding weight).

I have bolt-ins that I had welded, they didn't make any difference at all with anything.
If you are looking to make the car feel all around more solid, stable, and ride better you need good shocks, nothing will make more of a difference.

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

I can't get over the mixed reviews on these, half say its a night and day difference, and the rest say they are useless. I will have to see if I can get a ride in one that has them to get my own opinion on them. As for shocks, I plan on leaving them how they are. I have the Bilstein stage 2 suspension package that came on the 'Hawk, which I think are half way decent.

senicalj4579

iTrader: (41)

Im with you on that one dude. Most guys will say its so worth it then a guy like Sam Strano will chime in and say something totally different. WTF?!

sjsingle1

iTrader: (1)

SFCs.......are like the ugly drunk fat chick at the bar..........if it makes ya feel good..........do it

82cetuner

iTrader: (9)

dont you kinda need SFCs on cars with a **** ton of hp that you intend to drag race?

I prefer to to warp my chassi

67SS&99SS

iTrader: (7)

I noticed a difference in both of my cars after installing subframe connectors. Cuts down on squeaks and rattles, and makes the car feel more solid. I've done alot more suspension work to my M6 car than my A4 car, and as others have stated, good shocks and springs make a big difference. Both of my cars have UMI boxed SFC that are 2 pt weld ins. I didn't pull any interior. When I had the last set welded in, I was under the car with a spray water bottle, and when the welder would finish a section, I would cool it immediately.

WS.666

iTrader: (28)

Ride quality comes from your movable suspension. Though my favorite party trick is to jack my car up from the front jack point and have the entire side of the car lift. Absolutely no body flex...6-point roll cage adds to that as well. I'd recommend 3-points, so in the future you're not cutting the old ones off and rewelding again.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

In my own experience, UMI 2 point weld-ins on my A4 car stiffened the response to bumps and increased impact harshness. I still get dimples, but the crease I got in my RR quarter from dead hooking has not come back since the SFC's.

I recently did UMI bolt-ins on my M6. They've stiffened the car, but also made about a 75% reduction in the t-top creaking I had, which about had me ready to sell it.

I don't really like them for ride, but in both cases they've helped with problem that motivated me to install them.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I like the square tube version if for nothing else unlimited jacking potential on either side of the car.

Camaro Z

iTrader: (5)

+1, Square tubing is a lot more rigid than the round. I actually designed my own based of of UMI's and they ended up fitting perfect! It's nice to have access at work to 3D Modeling (I'm in an Engineering Dept.), a CNC Lazer, full machine shop, and powder coating lol









Subframe connectors DO stiffen the chassis. For Example, before I welded in my SFC's I had the car jacked up from just behind the front tire. The front left wheel was just off the ground and the rear was firmly planted, the rear suspension hardly flexing. After I was done installing the SFC's I did the exact same thing. Now when I put a jack behind the front tire, when the front tire is just off the ground the rear tire is about ready to come off the ground as well.

SR_94Blackbird

I have SFCs and I like the way my car felt without them. With 180k on the car and living in an area with horrible streets and highways, SFCs only created new squeaks and rattles.

meine96ws6

iTrader: (4)

i have them an love it.. made the car more firm.

but, maybe aftermarket companies sell stuff for no reason. since some people want to say they dont do anything..

tpunk

iTrader: (8)

It's not that they don't do anything, they do. However they are not the cure all that everyone thinks. A lot of what SFC's do is hide symptoms of poorly set up suspensions. I personally feel you should get the car right first and then add the SFC's. They won't be a night and day difference at this point but they will add some strength to the car. All that said, I still havn't installed them on my car.

JD_AMG

Just like a STB too right? What about the ebay tornado intake?
Just because someone makes something doesn't mean it does anything useful. That being said I do believe SFC's stiffen the chassis some, but nothing noticeable to the driver. If you want something to make the car feel solid, its shocks, period.

Did you jack the car up on the exact same point, or did you jack it up on the SFCs?
Also using suspension droop is a horrible comparison, the rear droops WAY more than the front, and has much much softer springs, plus its a solid axle, its going to stay closer to the floor than the front suspension, its not chassis flex its suspension geometry.

Camaro Z

iTrader: (5)

I understand that the rear has more travel, that's not what I was implying and I didn't explain that very well. I was simply using it as an example that when you jack it up there is less chassis flex when you jack the car up from behind the front tire. Try this on a car with no SFC's and the rear of the car will barely begin to lift:







I'm by no means saying that SFC's make a huge improvement in handling/straight line performance, but they do stiffen the chassis.