OldeSkool

Ok, I've done the hard part, saved up the $$ for koni shocks. So Strano will be getting a call in a week or two.

Before I spend it, i want to make sure that I know what I'm getting.

This is a daily driver. I ditched my poly lca's and phb because of noise and harshness. I anticipate setting these things to full soft in hopes that the ride will stay comfy.

Also. When I put my SFC's in, i noticed a marked improvement in the feel of the car, but it feels really gross (sloppy) again. Will new shocks alleviate some of this?

Thanks

pimpmaro

What springs do you have? If you plan on setting the koni's to full soft, you will most likely be in a position of not taking advantage of their dampening capabilities and really spending unneeded money. What exactly are your plans with the car?

Foxxtron

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Garrett. If you should upgrade to Koni's you might want to save more for some upgraded springs, assuming you have stock springs that you're using. Not trying to get you to buy stuff you don't need (or bandwagon his post), but I take it that if you buy Koni's, you might want to upgrade your spring set up as well, since springs have to be installed at the same time.

BTW, at one point I was using most 1LE parts for my vehicle, not including the Koni DA's. I feel those bushings will be better than the most of the Polyurethane bushings out there, so once again if you decide on Koni's, you might consider the 1LE bushings, especially for your LCA's and PHB. They're only a little harsher than the "stars shaped" bushings, however there is a decent improvement with performance for the cost, without the hassles of Polyurethane.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

He's saying full soft becaue he doesn't want it to ride badly. He also doesn't like it floppy, which means I doubt he will run the shock full soft at least in the front. I don't feel he needs springs at all, and will be astounded by the difference some real dampers will make.

The fact you feel the car is still sloppy after you SFC's doesn't surprise me in the least because you didn't need the SFC's. It's not a chassis flex issue, it's a ****-poor damping issue.

What can you expect? Simply put a better ride over the really sharp bumps, the elimination of the feeling you are in a boat on water vs. a car on pavement (the floating and bobbing). Better stability, quicker response with slower body roll.

JohnnieMo

I might be a little on the opposite side from the rest of the guys on here.

I had a stock suspension (right down to tires) and upgrade a whack of stuff. I added Koni SA's, Sam's front and rear swaybars, poly LCA's, panhard and torque arm. I also lowered by removing the rear isolator and lower perch. My car is now extremely rough even with the shocks at full soft. The whole rear suspension bangs over every bump when going slower than 50MPH. However over 50 MPH the car is a lot nicer than before.

In the end, the car handles like crazy, but is a lot more painful to cruise in. I can't say I'm 100% happy with where I'm at.

To answer your question - the Konis will not be as soft as you are used to... even at full soft. But they will be good... start adding more stuff like I did and it will get worse for ride quality.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

The poly bushings are certainly adding a lot of stiffness to the equation. The bars really shouldn't effect ride much if the bumps you are hitting are pretty straight across the road as the bar will just pivot as both tires move up or down.

did you do all these things at once? Seems you did, and the fact you say the rear suspension bangs over bumps is what leads me to believe you are feeling more the poly bushings and very possibly the torque arm mounting than anything. Because most every report is the car deals with bumps much better when you dump the DeCarbon's, and I agree 100% with that as it was the first thing I notice when I did mine way back on September 2000....

JohnnieMo

I am of a similar belief that the bushings are the primary culprit. And yes - I did it all at once. I may make changes in future to quiet things down. I'm not all that confident that the poly bushings were the way to go.... (and naturally, I should have listened to you in the beginning!!!)

Sorry to pirate your thread...

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

No issue, you are just adding you experiences. I just wondering if things were done all at once as really a banging situation isn't what we hear every from having good shocks installed, unless of course something else goes in with them and causes it.

OldeSkool

As for my springs I plan to keep the stockers but replace rear isolator with heater hose and use the lower front setting. Then if i feel like i can handle more punishment, I'll get springs later. What I don't want is to do both at the same time and wonder "is it the springs or the shocks that are making me miserable?"

As for my intended use. It needs to be comfortable enough for a spoiled princess to be able to take a nap while i'm driving on west texas 2-lane "hi-way" Yet i still want to be able to maneuver with (almost) the same confidence i had with my old stock C4

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

You had a C4.... I'll say with all confidence that a 4th gen on Koni's will be better than a base C4, more like a Z07 pacakge car in the way it'll go where it's pointed vs. now. How's that for helping you decide?

Syxx613

iTrader: (8)

you really should upgrade both shocks and springs at the same time. you will spend more time changing both at different times, it doesnt make sense. Besides, if you dont change the springs they will continue to sag especially since they are the stockers. go the distance and do both at the same time.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I completely disagree. If you change both, you don't know what parts had what effect. Further, many change springs because they just feel the car is soft. VERY often that softness is the lack of damping from the shocks and not the rate at all. I've seen this personally when customers asked what kind of springs I had in my car back when I had stock springs and Koni's on (now I have coil-overs). The surprised look on their faces told me they had no idea how much the dampers do.

You will spend time and money putting on springs later. And if you really feel you need them after talking to someone like oh.... me who can break down the reasons for and against, and do so honestly, then fine. But I completely disagree with the notion you *should* do it, and further with the idea that the stock springs will continue to sag just because they are stockers. I know a number of cars with well over 100k miles on the stock springs, that don't sag a bit.

OldeSkool

Ok thanks guys. Lets try to avoid discussing springs, not really what I'm concerned about. Im just concerned about ride quality with konis and it seems that they'll be a huge improvement performance wise without sacrificing too much comfort.

JohnnieMo

Yes I would agree with that. I don't think my ride problems can be blamed on the Konis.... They are a good shock.

In fact, when I originally had everything installed, I took the car on a road trip that very day. I was grinning from ear to ear. I remember saying "this is what it was missing all along". The car finally felt complete...

So clearly at first it was a tremendous impression. Just over time you get used to the improvements, and focus on the negatives.

JimMueller

iTrader: (9)

I'd be one of those folks My original springs have never been off the car except for maintenance of other parts. I've got about 110K miles on it at the moment.

My front fender height is 26.5-27", and the rear fender height is 27.5". The car's not quite parked level, but facing downhill at a 1-2* angle (using an angle meter) is insignificant to me.

I set my DA's compression one click above full soft in the rear, and full soft in the front and found that to be the most comfortable for my vehicle in my driving conditions. I switched out the rear shocks for HD's because even at the softest compression setting, the rear DA's were too stiff for autocross.

I think I do need stiffer springs now due to my torque-arm design, but that's a whole another discussion. If my friend gets the GC 550/150 combo, maybe I need to step up, too

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

JohnnieMo, what rear tires do you have and at what pressure? That may be your problem. A stiffly made tire will never ride smoothly and even a good tire with too much pressure can ride stiffly.

Back to the main issue, I think Koni SA up front with the stock spring should be fine. I can't say if you would need the Koni on the rear, though. I have the rear Koni SA and prefer them at full soft. The vast majority of guys with Koni rears keep them at full soft even when their racing (or almost full soft for the racer guys). I'm almost certain that you would keep yours on full soft as well. With that being said, you could save some money and get the Bilstein on the rear. For a regular street car, they should work very well and feel just like the Koni when it's at full soft. Hopefully Sam agrees with me. It's nice to have that flexabilty to increase the rear rebound just to see what effect it has, but it's always going to hurt the ride quality.

The other thing no one has mentioned here is that when you switch to better shocks the ride gets way smoother, almost too smooth. You would need some slightly stiffer springs just to get back to the facotry level of ride. I remember when I got my shocks and springs, I was excited to get them on there ASAP. Now the fronts are an all day ordeal (in case you didn't know), but the rears can be swapped in like 40 minutes. So I swapped the rear shocks and set them at full soft and it was like Buttta. 60-70% of the floaty freeway ride was gone and the rear soaked up the bumps like a couldn't believe. You would probably need 20-30 more lbs of spring rate to get the rear back to the factory ride level and that all equals increased performance without making it any rougher than stock.

JohnnieMo

I'm still using Eagle F1's. Would like to change but I barely drive the car enough to wear out the tires.

They are around 32psi. I doubt that is the issue. I really think it is the control arms.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

32 is a bit high for the rear, try 27 or 28psi cold and see how that feels. Too much pressure in the rear will bulge the tire out, make it ride rough, wear the center of the tread and reduce your contact patch. That may help you some, but the poly rear LCA may also be playing a part.

I find it hard to believe your car is so rough. I'm running 165lb rear springs with the Koni SA on full soft, the 315 GY GSD3 tire at 30psi (just temp, I'm going to lower it back to 27 real soon) and it rides real nice. I'm using the stock rear LCA's. What rear spring rates are you running?

mbraun

iTrader: (3)

Hey guys.... I listened to Sam Stanos on the set up on my car. I have the Konis on all 4 corners, the Hotchkis springs (1 inch lowering) Sams Hollow antisway bars on front and rear, Sam's panhard bar with rod ends and an eldlebrock torque arm. With the front shocks set at about half and the rear shocks on full soft it is a decent ride on the street. I set the rears at about half and it is fun time on the road course. Good luck on your ride.

JohnnieMo

I'm running stock springs as per Sam's suggestion. However my car sits extremely low. I'm not sure why my stock springs are so low on the car.