No more torque arm. G-force suspension setup
12-15-2006, 12:55 AM
#81
heres a vid of a car with pete-z bars.... basically identical setup but uses a tad longer upper bar. I think we all know Ed Wright or at least heard of him. this is his first 9,95 pass with the new fast system. had a "bad" (compared to usual) 1.36 sixty on this run. He swears by them and I think this shows the lift theory might not be correct.
This is at our local TRP track.
http://www.fastchip.com/Ed-995.wmv
This is at our local TRP track.
http://www.fastchip.com/Ed-995.wmv
12-15-2006, 02:05 AM
#83
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thanks for posting that vid. That is one pissed off looking ta! And thanks to the other guys chiming in here. I wish I could be more help in the technical aspect of things. I've been a lifted truck guy most of my life, and just never cared about drag times before. I've only been doing car performance stuff a few years and have much catching up to do with some of the guys here.
12-17-2006, 03:53 PM
#86
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bump...
im about to order the ladder bar setup...... BUT....
concerns:
1. will it be able to handle around 850rwtq?
2. this is my street car. i take it to the track for fun (however i DO want to get the car to stick, and i do want the rear end planted). i do NOT want to take away from the drivability of the car on the street. how are the ladder bars cornering. im not talking road racing, just talking being playful on the turns, going through the twisties here and there.
3. how will the pinion angle be affected when one wheel is loaded and the other one is not?
4. does this interfere with over the axle catbacks?
im a little nervous just because i would think this idea would have taken off by now. i really want to simplify my suspension, and make it rock solid. appreciate any input
im about to order the ladder bar setup...... BUT....
concerns:
1. will it be able to handle around 850rwtq?
2. this is my street car. i take it to the track for fun (however i DO want to get the car to stick, and i do want the rear end planted). i do NOT want to take away from the drivability of the car on the street. how are the ladder bars cornering. im not talking road racing, just talking being playful on the turns, going through the twisties here and there.
3. how will the pinion angle be affected when one wheel is loaded and the other one is not?
4. does this interfere with over the axle catbacks?
im a little nervous just because i would think this idea would have taken off by now. i really want to simplify my suspension, and make it rock solid. appreciate any input
12-17-2006, 08:27 PM
#87
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I recently checked out a well known chassis shop that builds Outlaw cars. The owner showed me his 8 second 95 Camaro to give me some ideas about a suspension setup. I asked about the Z bars and he immediately said it was a bad
idea for the street. He said the links are easy to break on the street due to the extreme stresses on them.
idea for the street. He said the links are easy to break on the street due to the extreme stresses on them.
12-18-2006, 12:22 AM
#88
Originally Posted by Dave88z
I recently checked out a well known chassis shop that builds Outlaw cars. The owner showed me his 8 second 95 Camaro to give me some ideas about a suspension setup. I asked about the Z bars and he immediately said it was a bad
idea for the street. He said the links are easy to break on the street due to the extreme stresses on them.
idea for the street. He said the links are easy to break on the street due to the extreme stresses on them.
12-18-2006, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PowerShift408
Yeah because street driving is so more stressful than launching your car on slicks at the track.
hes probably talking about cornering, which puts different loads on either rear wheel, therefore, creating wierd pinion angles and stresses on either control arms, since they are independent to side, unlike a single TA which controls both sides.
that was basically my question.... ladder bars seem to designed more for track (drag) use. i LOVE the idea, but since there is no clear answer yet. i dont really want to risk it.
12-18-2006, 03:33 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by Turbo LS1 SS
hes probably talking about cornering, which puts different loads on either rear wheel, therefore, creating wierd pinion angles and stresses on either control arms, since they are independent to side, unlike a single TA which controls both sides.
that was basically my question.... ladder bars seem to designed more for track (drag) use. i LOVE the idea, but since there is no clear answer yet. i dont really want to risk it.
that was basically my question.... ladder bars seem to designed more for track (drag) use. i LOVE the idea, but since there is no clear answer yet. i dont really want to risk it.
Jon
12-18-2006, 03:37 PM
#91
Originally Posted by PowerShift408
Yeah because street driving is so more stressful than launching your car on slicks at the track.
12-18-2006, 05:04 PM
#92
so, where did you get the parts? Im interested in doing just the ladder bar conversion but leaving the springs and struts out ($$$$ 
). their dealer page is empty, and they list no email. also, can u do the ladder bar with the stock suspension?
). their dealer page is empty, and they list no email. also, can u do the ladder bar with the stock suspension?
12-18-2006, 05:23 PM
#93
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Ive seen a few of these kits on the street with 0 problems. Im building one now for my 9" on my street car. not going to run a torque arm. Im using 1' swaged tubes with 3/4 ends. I have about 100 in my setup with all parts and brackets. I dont think the tubes will break under street driving presures. Ive seen alot of people using swaged bars for control arms etc.
12-18-2006, 05:27 PM
#94
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Actually, the impact loading from potholes and bumps, as well as cornering, probably is more stressful than launching your car on slicks at the track.
12-18-2006, 07:59 PM
#95
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there is nothing about this method that will break on street driving. it might have a more solid ride but thats it. I dont see the tabs breaking off(as long as they are welded good.) and the tubes used are used on dirt track cars for years. I would say they put them through the test with the corners. I will have mine on a little after christmas and will report what I see first hand. I personaly havent heard of a singe instance that this system has failed.
12-18-2006, 08:09 PM
#97
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Originally Posted by SpecterGT260
so, where did you get the parts? Im interested in doing just the ladder bar conversion but leaving the springs and struts out ($$$$ ). their dealer page is empty, and they list no email. also, can u do the ladder bar with the stock suspension?
). their dealer page is empty, and they list no email. also, can u do the ladder bar with the stock suspension?Parts you will need.
2 8" swaged bars with 3/4" ends $30
2 Left hand thead 3/4" end links $20
2 right hand thread 3/4" end links $20
2 left hadn thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
2 right hand thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 3/4 grade 8 bolts, 8 washers, 4 locking nuts $20
And you are ready to go. All of these parts are availible through summitracing.com or your local speed shop. I picked all of mine up at my speedshop in town. Its always alot cheaper (for some reason) if you go to a dirt track speed shop. They also have alot more of it in inventory.
12-19-2006, 12:16 AM
#98
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Yes, but they will break from wheel hop that can easily be induced by acceleration on bumpy roads.
12-19-2006, 12:18 AM
#99
Originally Posted by blown90lx
If you can weld or know someone who can then its about a $130 project. If you already have lower control arms. if not you can buy boxed lower control arms off ebay for $100
Parts you will need.
2 8" swaged bars with 3/4" ends $30
2 Left hand thead 3/4" end links $20
2 right hand thread 3/4" end links $20
2 left hadn thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
2 right hand thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 3/4 grade 8 bolts, 8 washers, 4 locking nuts $20
And you are ready to go. All of these parts are availible through summitracing.com or your local speed shop. I picked all of mine up at my speedshop in town. Its always alot cheaper (for some reason) if you go to a dirt track speed shop. They also have alot more of it in inventory.
Parts you will need.
2 8" swaged bars with 3/4" ends $30
2 Left hand thead 3/4" end links $20
2 right hand thread 3/4" end links $20
2 left hadn thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
2 right hand thread 3/4" jam nuts $5
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 of these http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$10
4 3/4 grade 8 bolts, 8 washers, 4 locking nuts $20
And you are ready to go. All of these parts are availible through summitracing.com or your local speed shop. I picked all of mine up at my speedshop in town. Its always alot cheaper (for some reason) if you go to a dirt track speed shop. They also have alot more of it in inventory.
12-19-2006, 07:06 AM
#100
Ide say these could be made really easily as well... What about using some flex joints like the Jeep guys use. Well Im sure others use it too... But use a flex joint at the body, and rubber/poly bushings at the axle. Then just use rod ends for the upper short arms.
Here is the "flex joint" Im talking about...
The arm would look something like this... but maybe without the adjustable center.
Those are parts from the Rubicon Express line... Its how my front suspension is set up in my jeep. Those super flex joints give a really solid mount, and allow awesome movement over a bushing. Torsional movement is substantial as well. So that might help for the cornering. Plus you can rebuild them if they ever wear out. I have over 2 years of hard use on mine, and they are still good to go. I just grease them up every so often. I say use the rubber bushings at the axle just to cut down on noise and have a nice sturdy point on the axle. The little arm can be rod ends or whatever you choose...
Justin
Here is the "flex joint" Im talking about...
The arm would look something like this... but maybe without the adjustable center.
Those are parts from the Rubicon Express line... Its how my front suspension is set up in my jeep. Those super flex joints give a really solid mount, and allow awesome movement over a bushing. Torsional movement is substantial as well. So that might help for the cornering. Plus you can rebuild them if they ever wear out. I have over 2 years of hard use on mine, and they are still good to go. I just grease them up every so often. I say use the rubber bushings at the axle just to cut down on noise and have a nice sturdy point on the axle. The little arm can be rod ends or whatever you choose...
Justin