No more torque arm. G-force suspension setup
08-20-2006, 03:43 PM
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No more torque arm. G-force suspension setup I haven't seen anything here about this kit, so figured I'd share. The kit consists of 4 coilovers, a new panhard bar, and hardware to convert the rear to a ladderbar type setup. The kit is made by gforce suspension http://www.g-forcesuspension.com/
I was interested in this kit out of my complete belief that the torque arm suspension was designed in hell. Previously my car had hotchkiss springs with bilstien shocks. The drop in height caused many clearence issues with the tourque arm. My first torque arm was a jeggs torque arm. This one transmitted severe amounts of vibration and noise into the car. Eventually the mounting points failed and I ended up fixing a foot long gash in my floor. Next was the spohn ta that came with it's own mounting bar that went in the old floor brace location. Performance wise, I liked this arm, but due to my ride height I hit every bump on the road. Also there was a horrible cluncking noise along with the vibration. So next I tried a bmr torque arm with the new mounting piece that replaced the tranny mount. The problem here is that I chose the non-adjustable ta. I had to mount the front of the ta as low as the mount would allow to keep it from hitting the floor. My pinion ange was way off and I still had the vibration issue.
I found the gforce setup on one of the sponsor's sites but was a little worried since I could not find anyone around here with this setup. But the thought of ditching my ta was too good to pass up. So here's my review with pics.
Here's a stock photo of the kit. The mounting tabs for the upper links are different than the photo, but everything else is the same.
I started with the front coilovers which is nothing new to most people here. The coilovers use qa1 springs and the strut portion is basically a re-worked hal piece. Not much to cover here that hasn't been 100 times here, but here's a pic of the front instaled. The fronts re-use the factory upper mounts, so have a spring compressor on hand. Recently my local oriely's started carrying a good one that uses u-bolts to get between the thinly gapped hothkiss springs. So no worries there. I learned that it's much easier to set the height higher than you normally would aoutside the car, since it's much easier to lower the springs then raise them once installed.
moving onto the rear. . . The kit came with new lower mounts that bolt on to the old lower shock mounts. Using one existing hole, and drilling the second out, bolt on the lower mounts. easy enough.
Installing the upper mounts by myself was a bit tricky but doable. The mount bolts through the original upper shock mount location. Then it has two bolts that go through one existing hole and a newly drilled hole through the fender well.
New tabs need to be welded on the top of the axle to mount the upper linkage to. I have a currie 9" axle, and the tabs are for a gm 10 bolt, so I had to do a minor trim for good fitment. But still easy.
Here's misc pics of the rear. You can see the new lower control arm and the uper linkage.
It's been beating the hell out of it for a little over a week now. I have to say that I am damn happy with this setup. So much vibration and noise is gone now. Not to mention I now have much more room underneath the car for a possible dual exhaust system at a later date. The seat of the pants feel is a huge improvement!! So much of that giving feeling in the drivetrain is gone now. Everything is much more instant now. The install was an easy one, although a couple of times an extra set of hands would have helped. Everything quality wise, seems to be top notch. All hardware was included and eveything fit right in wit no issues. I also called gforce a couple of times, and their customer service was right on target. Overall I am a very happy customer. I suck at typing, so I'll stop here. But ask any questions, and here's a link to alot more pictures.
http://www.mobius1.net/gallery/galle...s.php?album=46
I was interested in this kit out of my complete belief that the torque arm suspension was designed in hell. Previously my car had hotchkiss springs with bilstien shocks. The drop in height caused many clearence issues with the tourque arm. My first torque arm was a jeggs torque arm. This one transmitted severe amounts of vibration and noise into the car. Eventually the mounting points failed and I ended up fixing a foot long gash in my floor. Next was the spohn ta that came with it's own mounting bar that went in the old floor brace location. Performance wise, I liked this arm, but due to my ride height I hit every bump on the road. Also there was a horrible cluncking noise along with the vibration. So next I tried a bmr torque arm with the new mounting piece that replaced the tranny mount. The problem here is that I chose the non-adjustable ta. I had to mount the front of the ta as low as the mount would allow to keep it from hitting the floor. My pinion ange was way off and I still had the vibration issue.
I found the gforce setup on one of the sponsor's sites but was a little worried since I could not find anyone around here with this setup. But the thought of ditching my ta was too good to pass up. So here's my review with pics.
Here's a stock photo of the kit. The mounting tabs for the upper links are different than the photo, but everything else is the same.
I started with the front coilovers which is nothing new to most people here. The coilovers use qa1 springs and the strut portion is basically a re-worked hal piece. Not much to cover here that hasn't been 100 times here, but here's a pic of the front instaled. The fronts re-use the factory upper mounts, so have a spring compressor on hand. Recently my local oriely's started carrying a good one that uses u-bolts to get between the thinly gapped hothkiss springs. So no worries there. I learned that it's much easier to set the height higher than you normally would aoutside the car, since it's much easier to lower the springs then raise them once installed.
moving onto the rear. . . The kit came with new lower mounts that bolt on to the old lower shock mounts. Using one existing hole, and drilling the second out, bolt on the lower mounts. easy enough.
Installing the upper mounts by myself was a bit tricky but doable. The mount bolts through the original upper shock mount location. Then it has two bolts that go through one existing hole and a newly drilled hole through the fender well.
New tabs need to be welded on the top of the axle to mount the upper linkage to. I have a currie 9" axle, and the tabs are for a gm 10 bolt, so I had to do a minor trim for good fitment. But still easy.
Here's misc pics of the rear. You can see the new lower control arm and the uper linkage.
It's been beating the hell out of it for a little over a week now. I have to say that I am damn happy with this setup. So much vibration and noise is gone now. Not to mention I now have much more room underneath the car for a possible dual exhaust system at a later date. The seat of the pants feel is a huge improvement!! So much of that giving feeling in the drivetrain is gone now. Everything is much more instant now. The install was an easy one, although a couple of times an extra set of hands would have helped. Everything quality wise, seems to be top notch. All hardware was included and eveything fit right in wit no issues. I also called gforce a couple of times, and their customer service was right on target. Overall I am a very happy customer. I suck at typing, so I'll stop here. But ask any questions, and here's a link to alot more pictures.
http://www.mobius1.net/gallery/galle...s.php?album=46
Last edited by richieg; 08-20-2006 at 03:55 PM.
08-20-2006, 08:03 PM
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It does look like something for the drag strip. And I'm sure it do great on one also. Ironically though, I got it to make my car a more comfortable daily driver. It handles the turns just as good as my previous setup, and it's quieter to boot.
08-20-2006, 10:02 PM
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For me it was the stroke of bad luck I listed in the beginning of my post. I've never been able to find one that worked for me aftermarket wise. And the oem just let my axle move around too much. Some people might like the weight savings of ditching it. Also there is the gained clearence underneath the car for exhaust systems.
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08-21-2006, 12:41 PM
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I'm no expert, but I would imagine gm is looking at cutting cost and making something for the masses vs. building for performance oriented people. The factory torque arm setup is softer and alot easier on the drivetrain as it helps absorb the initial shock of getting on it, allowing for the rest of the drivetrain to last longer. It holds a relatively consistent pinion angle through alot of travel and manufactoring variations. Most importantly to gm, it gets the job of holding the axle in place at a cheap cost. When we start adding power and caring about performance, the wheel hop is no longer acceptable so we have to look at aftermarket torque arms. This leads right into my problems with multiple aftermarket torque arms. For gm, the firebird/camaro is designed to be a cheap car with alot of power. When it comes to showing their best look to the corvette.
So the trade off of this setup is that it cost more, it takes a little more work to get the pinion angle right, and to the masses the ride would be to hard. But to performance guys that like a kisk in the *** when they hit the gas would not consider the hard ride a bad thing.
So the trade off of this setup is that it cost more, it takes a little more work to get the pinion angle right, and to the masses the ride would be to hard. But to performance guys that like a kisk in the *** when they hit the gas would not consider the hard ride a bad thing.
08-21-2006, 06:17 PM
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This is very similar to older FWD car rear suspensions.
The UCAs on this kit control the pinion angle to 1 position.
4 link and Torque arm set-ups control the pinion angle through a wide range of motion.
With this setup the travel of the suspension and the fixed pinion angle compound this could create a wide range of pinion angles when the suspension moves.
The UCAs on this kit control the pinion angle to 1 position.
4 link and Torque arm set-ups control the pinion angle through a wide range of motion.
With this setup the travel of the suspension and the fixed pinion angle compound this could create a wide range of pinion angles when the suspension moves.
Last edited by Dragula; 08-21-2006 at 06:35 PM.
08-21-2006, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jvrwong
So, would it be better suited at the race track or on a road course?
08-23-2006, 08:07 AM
#15
Okay, I checked out their website (G-Forcesuspension), and saw that they offer just the ladder bars for a suggested retail of ~$449.00, but what sponsor sells their products? The "dealers" section of their website is down, so I couldn't see who sells their stuff. Heck $449 is only a little more expensive than an adjustable torque arm, add another $100 for installing them (since I don't have a welder at home) and you're looking at pretty close to the same price as an aftermarket adjustable torque arm + aftermarket lower control arms.
Anyone else have any comments or experience with this type of setup? I'm just a street driver, so I'm not really concerned about track performance, but I would like to decrease wheel hop.
Anyone else have any comments or experience with this type of setup? I'm just a street driver, so I'm not really concerned about track performance, but I would like to decrease wheel hop.
08-23-2006, 08:21 AM
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here's the sponsor http://www.neweraperformanceparts.com/ I couldn't find any info on this setup before I bought it. I called up gforce and after talking with them I felt confident enough to try it out. My setup before this was all hothkiss; springs, subframes, anti-sway bars, strut tower brace, panhard, lower control arms, and bilstien shocks. Anyone that rode along with me agreed that my car handled exceptionaly well. I don't enjoy drag racing, and have always been more interested in road manners. Like I said earlier, my main reason for getting this kit was to keep the wheel hop at bay while not adding noise & vibration. A second reason was due to added weight of alot of electronics and sound deadner in my car, it started to sit a little low on the hotchkiss springs. I liked the coilovers for the ability to adjust to exact height desired. I haven't had any loss of handling capabitlities, I could increase the performance aspect simply by turning a **** at the loss of everyday driving comfort.
08-24-2006, 12:18 PM
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Dealers
Originally Posted by The Alchemist
The "dealers" section of their website is down, so I couldn't see who sells their stuff.
Also we can answer any other questions you have.
Terence
Please no non sponsor contact information
-Donaimian
Last edited by DONAIMIAN; 08-24-2006 at 02:00 PM.
08-24-2006, 02:24 PM
#19
I do have a couple questions....
The last time someone posted about ladder bar style lower control arms (from Lakewood I beleive), the common remarks where that they were'nt strong enough, and that the front lower control arm brace wasn't designed to handle the load being put on them by a ladder bar style control arm. Can you guys elaborate on this? If I can get rid of my torque arm and go to this style, I'd do it in a heartbeat as long as I don't sacrifice drivability since the car is a weekend warrior only, and not driven on a track ever.
Thanks guys.
The last time someone posted about ladder bar style lower control arms (from Lakewood I beleive), the common remarks where that they were'nt strong enough, and that the front lower control arm brace wasn't designed to handle the load being put on them by a ladder bar style control arm. Can you guys elaborate on this? If I can get rid of my torque arm and go to this style, I'd do it in a heartbeat as long as I don't sacrifice drivability since the car is a weekend warrior only, and not driven on a track ever.
Thanks guys.