Wilwood vs. Brembo vs. Alcon
12-13-2006, 07:07 PM
#1
Wilwood vs. Brembo vs. Alcon Looking at brake calipers (not brake kits). How do the "big three" (that I know of), Wilwood, Brembo, and Alcon compare? I would THINK based on price that Alcon is the highest quality fallowed by Brembo and then Wilwood. Is this really true and if so, HOW TRUE? At what point (I know I know...opened ended question with so many variables) do you need to "step up" to the next level.
12-13-2006, 07:17 PM
#2
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I'd put Brembo first IMO then Alcon and Wilwood last. I'll let trackbird or foxxtron chime in on the stepping up to the next level. My head already hurts tonight, I don't need any brake write ups to make it worse.
Jon
Jon
12-13-2006, 11:08 PM
#4
TECH Fanatic
APRacing, then Brembo or Alcon (they are tied)... and then, maybe Wilwood.
AP, Brembo and Alcon are compariable until you get into the exotic stuff. When you start seeing $3000 price tags (per caliper), you can pretty much guess those applications are on the ragged edge of extreme. APRacing (aka 'old school' AP Girling) is pretty much the big dog without question and have been since the invention of the automobile.
As of this writing, the two top manufacturers used in professional racing are APRacing and Brembo. Alcon has been slipping the last couple of years, poor supply in the US and no new technology being passed down are two major reasons for this. But none the less, Alcon is still an excellent productline.
"The next level" can only be answered by your checkbook. If you have the means and you can actually utilize what you have spent, then by all means go for it. But your actual usage will really determine if your money will be better spent on an upgraded product... and might even dictate that you may just need a better (or second) car to play around with.
Can I justify stepping up ?? Sure, my driving habbits are pretty damn aggressive and I use every bit of everything that my chassis has to offer. So, 14.5" sequential six pistons it was.....
AP, Brembo and Alcon are compariable until you get into the exotic stuff. When you start seeing $3000 price tags (per caliper), you can pretty much guess those applications are on the ragged edge of extreme. APRacing (aka 'old school' AP Girling) is pretty much the big dog without question and have been since the invention of the automobile.
As of this writing, the two top manufacturers used in professional racing are APRacing and Brembo. Alcon has been slipping the last couple of years, poor supply in the US and no new technology being passed down are two major reasons for this. But none the less, Alcon is still an excellent productline.
"The next level" can only be answered by your checkbook. If you have the means and you can actually utilize what you have spent, then by all means go for it. But your actual usage will really determine if your money will be better spent on an upgraded product... and might even dictate that you may just need a better (or second) car to play around with.
Can I justify stepping up ?? Sure, my driving habbits are pretty damn aggressive and I use every bit of everything that my chassis has to offer. So, 14.5" sequential six pistons it was.....
12-14-2006, 07:40 PM
#5
This is an area where people are fooled by the high prices of some brakes. The wilwoods work fine for extended high heat road course racing...I personally believe the alcons and brembos are "pay for the name" and are not any better.
12-14-2006, 11:22 PM
#6
TECH Fanatic
Not to totally bag on your parade Chuck, but I have to disagree... well, to some of it.
Yeah.... right up to the point the type3 coating changes color from just moderate use. Or did you just forget to mention the series of Wilwood product that will actually live up to what you have just stated ?? Sure I might believe what you stated for the Integra, P6R or STR calipers... and maybe... just maybe... the GTIII in a lighter chassis. But not the SL series, which is about the only Wilwood seen or talked about around here.
No one ever speaks about total chassis weight during brake component selection, except for those who understand that... "it depends on the application"... means, exactly that. What you choose depends on the actual use and application. As for the more moderate priced Wilwood systems, sure, they work great for a chassis that is not going to see a whole lot of performance usage, like on a daily driver / streeter. But for an extended high heat road race use ?? Uhm, no. Do you (or anyone for that matter) need 14" six pots ?? Some of us yes, mostly here, no. Track events, land speed record stuff and open road racing... I'd say so. Low speed to moderate speed autocross and putzing around town... I'd say no.
Then again, it depends on the application.
Yup, I hear you on this one as well. I think that very same thing when I hear and/or see BAER's 6S or 6R systems. Billet mono blocks on a street chassis ?? Yeah, right.....
For comparison, my AP's are pounds lighter, more ridgid (in near all of the following examples) and cost less than the performance comparible BAER, Brembo, Alcon and Wilwood systems. The problem is, the compariable Brembo TGT caliper is $1100/ea, the Wilwood GTIII are $1500/ea, the Integra 6R is $2600/ea and the STR comes in at $3800/ea. The only system that is compariable (price and performance) is the Alcon Advantage six piston (which just also happends to be a mono-block)... is $800/ea.
I do agree however, that people are fooled by the majority of high priced brake systems. Thank the Lord that we have places like this, to ask questions and better educate our dollar spent.
Originally Posted by ChucksZ06
The wilwoods work fine for extended high heat road course racing....
No one ever speaks about total chassis weight during brake component selection, except for those who understand that... "it depends on the application"... means, exactly that. What you choose depends on the actual use and application. As for the more moderate priced Wilwood systems, sure, they work great for a chassis that is not going to see a whole lot of performance usage, like on a daily driver / streeter. But for an extended high heat road race use ?? Uhm, no. Do you (or anyone for that matter) need 14" six pots ?? Some of us yes, mostly here, no. Track events, land speed record stuff and open road racing... I'd say so. Low speed to moderate speed autocross and putzing around town... I'd say no.
Then again, it depends on the application.
Originally Posted by ChucksZ06
This is an area where people are fooled by the high prices of some brakes.....
For comparison, my AP's are pounds lighter, more ridgid (in near all of the following examples) and cost less than the performance comparible BAER, Brembo, Alcon and Wilwood systems. The problem is, the compariable Brembo TGT caliper is $1100/ea, the Wilwood GTIII are $1500/ea, the Integra 6R is $2600/ea and the STR comes in at $3800/ea. The only system that is compariable (price and performance) is the Alcon Advantage six piston (which just also happends to be a mono-block)... is $800/ea.
I do agree however, that people are fooled by the majority of high priced brake systems. Thank the Lord that we have places like this, to ask questions and better educate our dollar spent.
12-14-2006, 11:33 PM
#7
ok, well to now ask a car specific question...
my Camaro, 3200lbs (still working on getting it to 3000lbs loaded), ultimate end is a 99% track (road) car with the other 1% being nice days only drive....
suggestions on who I should look at? I WAS looking at the SLRs but those seem to be out of the question now.
my Camaro, 3200lbs (still working on getting it to 3000lbs loaded), ultimate end is a 99% track (road) car with the other 1% being nice days only drive....
suggestions on who I should look at? I WAS looking at the SLRs but those seem to be out of the question now.
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12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
#8
TECH Fanatic
Well, the first questions are going to be...
What class are you going to be competing in ?? Do they have any rules that limit you to anything... like wheel diameter or tire size ?? Or is this a "run whatcha brung" class ??
Is there a speed limit or a target speed that this class will run ?? This is really what you want to scrutinize as things get eaiser to account for at specific velocities and chassis weights. The fact that you are looking at putting the chassis on a diet will make the actual requirements a little eaiser on your pocket...
Off the top of my head, you will want to study what Stop Tech has to offer you as they are in the arena of what you are going to do and campain a few cars that have what it takes without braking the bank.
Next, I would seriously look into either the Porsche/Brembo caliper conversion or the Alcon 'Advantage' six-piston set-up. If you want some good reading and the tech to back it up, I'll recommend that you cruze the threads on these specific set-ups on your specific chassis over on Corner Carvers.net
Be warned tho, read the "WIKI" and tread lightly if you ask questions. The Wiki will explain why....
What class are you going to be competing in ?? Do they have any rules that limit you to anything... like wheel diameter or tire size ?? Or is this a "run whatcha brung" class ??
Is there a speed limit or a target speed that this class will run ?? This is really what you want to scrutinize as things get eaiser to account for at specific velocities and chassis weights. The fact that you are looking at putting the chassis on a diet will make the actual requirements a little eaiser on your pocket...
Off the top of my head, you will want to study what Stop Tech has to offer you as they are in the arena of what you are going to do and campain a few cars that have what it takes without braking the bank.
Next, I would seriously look into either the Porsche/Brembo caliper conversion or the Alcon 'Advantage' six-piston set-up. If you want some good reading and the tech to back it up, I'll recommend that you cruze the threads on these specific set-ups on your specific chassis over on Corner Carvers.net
Be warned tho, read the "WIKI" and tread lightly if you ask questions. The Wiki will explain why....
12-15-2006, 02:48 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by chicane
Well, the first questions are going to be...
What class are you going to be competing in ?? Do they have any rules that limit you to anything... like wheel diameter or tire size ?? Or is this a "run whatcha brung" class ??
Is there a speed limit or a target speed that this class will run ?? This is really what you want to scrutinize as things get eaiser to account for at specific velocities and chassis weights. The fact that you are looking at putting the chassis on a diet will make the actual requirements a little eaiser on your pocket...
Off the top of my head, you will want to study what Stop Tech has to offer you as they are in the arena of what you are going to do and campain a few cars that have what it takes without braking the bank.
Next, I would seriously look into either the Porsche/Brembo caliper conversion or the Alcon 'Advantage' six-piston set-up. If you want some good reading and the tech to back it up, I'll recommend that you cruze the threads on these specific set-ups on your specific chassis over on Corner Carvers.net
Be warned tho, read the "WIKI" and tread lightly if you ask questions. The Wiki will explain why....
What class are you going to be competing in ?? Do they have any rules that limit you to anything... like wheel diameter or tire size ?? Or is this a "run whatcha brung" class ??
Is there a speed limit or a target speed that this class will run ?? This is really what you want to scrutinize as things get eaiser to account for at specific velocities and chassis weights. The fact that you are looking at putting the chassis on a diet will make the actual requirements a little eaiser on your pocket...
Off the top of my head, you will want to study what Stop Tech has to offer you as they are in the arena of what you are going to do and campain a few cars that have what it takes without braking the bank.
Next, I would seriously look into either the Porsche/Brembo caliper conversion or the Alcon 'Advantage' six-piston set-up. If you want some good reading and the tech to back it up, I'll recommend that you cruze the threads on these specific set-ups on your specific chassis over on Corner Carvers.net
Be warned tho, read the "WIKI" and tread lightly if you ask questions. The Wiki will explain why....
Jon
