BLKWS.6

My friend has an 01 SS M6 Camaro.

It is currently stock

He plans to add Hotchkis springs and Koni shocks before he does SFC's. I have told him the high-dollar shocks are a waste until he gets some SFC's to combat chassis flex which will keep those high $ shocks from truly delivering the goods. Am I wrong? Should he not worry about SFC's and get the suspension stuff? Or should he wait until he has SFC's or do SFC's at the same time because he wont see the benefit he payed for without them?

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

The sfc's will help some with the handling yes im sure of that but it will still be a ton better then stock. I will prob do the sfc's at the same time anyway cause I think I might go ahead and order them from a umi group purchase that is going on.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Yep, you're wrong....

3 National Championships, no SFC's. Not bad things to have, but in NO WAY necessary, and the shocks are a much bigger issue on the car than the chassis is.

jb442

iTrader: (4)

What does he plan on doing with the car? I'll take a guess in that your friend just wants a good handling street car... If that's the case, then, IMHO, you are wrong. I just installed the Hotckis/Koni setup on my car recently and the difference was incredible. It's like a completely different car and I was amazed it could handle so well. Even if his car is a convertible, I think he should move SFC's down the list.

If your friend would like more detailed info., I would have him call Sam Strano. He'll steer him (pun intended ) in the right direction.

EDIT: Damn! Sam, you're quick!

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

I just happened to be here......

And there other options as well. I'll tell you know that I wouldn't limit them to just those springs, or those shocks (as even among Koni's there are options), or stock bars, etc. I can't know the the details I need to to recommend anything here. Furthermore the person in question isn't even asking. But as usual, and as I did with jb442, I'm happy to take some time to help answer his questions on the phone.

BLKWS.6

My point is, he wont be able to tell Koni's from Bilsteins without a more rigid chassis. NOT that the shocks wont help AT ALL, just that spending the $$ for Konis makes no sense without SFC's.

Ace$nyper

iTrader: (8)

Frankly the chassis is stronger then most give it credit for.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

I agree w sam, jb442, and ace$nyper. The 4th gen chassis is strong. I had SFC, and took them off. The car does not need them. Not that they are a bad thing, my way of thinking is they will keep the car nicer/strighter/tighter longer. But needed...nope.

SpdFrk1990

iTrader: (6)

Even on my thirdgen which is a weaker chassis I barely even could tell a difference with sfc's and they were weld ins.

Ironhead

Yes, he would.

Yes, it does.

I've done this as well. Welded SFCs no less. Minimal, if any, difference to the driver without 'em.

Passengers (and fellow racers) who have been in the car numerous times before can't tell any difference since they were removed.

Silver99Z28

iTrader: (1)

My experience:

Had UMI, boxed 2-points-SFC's on the car (welded) no really improvement (evtl. a little bit better, not sure). Then put the Bilstein HD's with stock springs on the car (and threw away the crappy de Carbons).

Was a difference like night and day...

Go and get the best suspension combo (shocks, springs and sway-bars) by talking to someone who knows this stuff...

For me, the combination of HD's and the stock springs was a good choice...

Holger

firebird6786

SFC(2point) were one of the first things i bought for my car. i notice a difference

Checkmate

iTrader: (2)

With SLP bolt ons, it was a night and day difference with my old car.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

My point is you are incorrect. You guys act like this car is a wet egg-noodle. The car designed in the 1990's and designed with a convertible model in mind......

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Read the posts.... You have a number of folks who installed them. The ones who saw the "huge differences" are ones that don't appear to have any kind of decent shocks on the car. The ones who have decent shocks tell you flat out there isn't much change. I won't say there's NO change. But clearly you can see the shocks are much more important because those who've changed them are the ones who are telling you from experience, (and at least 2 by my count then REMOVED the SFC's) the before and after deal. If they have removed them with Sh*t shocks, they'd be bitching more too.

Fact is simple. The chassis is NOT a weak POS, and you can make *ANY* car stronger, including tube-framed race cars because all metal flexes. The shocks from GM and cheap ones in general are terrible at damping impacts which get into the body and resonate and make the car quiver. Fix the damping, keep the impacts out and the car gets better. Or you can band-aid it first with SFC's which lessens the quivering/jello motions, but still lets the underlying cause (the harsh impacts) through.

toofless916

word up!!

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

What is your statement based on? After all, I have 3 jackets and trophies that say SCCA National Champion on them, all 3 in cars without SFC's.

And again, you seem to miss the point that you drove other STOCK cars with them and it's a night and day difference. You ignore those cars don't have good dampers. You ignore the real-world experience of those who've posted here who've done both, and some who've even then REMOVED the SFC's with the good shock installed and can tell you the absolute difference.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

No doubt a claim based on some scientific testing.

I don't think SFCs r a bad thing. But this statement is way over the top. They are 4 piece of mind and a modest strength increase. Not a night and day change or "a must".

Demon Of Dreams

iTrader: (3)

i still maintain on a stock car they're great, they were my first mod, not because I necessarilly wanted a better handling car, but for a few reasons.

first and foremost, I want to preserve the car, I bought it low miles, and I want to treat it as such, and keep it as such ... I want it to stay tight and straight. It's my insurance, so to speak, on keeping the car nice, regardless of what the future brings.

second, I liked the thought of tying in the center better, which is why I got the UMI 3 point, it provides a better mounting area for a DS Loop or whatever as well.

third, it also re-inforces the area where the LCA's mount, which, again, something of my personal preference not anyone elses.

they actually created more rattles than I'd care for. Part of it is due to a broken windshield, part of it is due to having crappy decarbon's on the car still. the handling improved, yes, but the damping effect of the shocks seems to have increased. Fine, I don't have the money for a set of Koni's yet, and I've yet to call Sam about shocks (though I'm probably keeping my stock springs for awhile and going with the Bilstein HD's i'm fairly sure of it, and some new sway bars), but I need some other things too, like brakes, and a new windshield

SFC's are up to the user.
for me, they make sense.

to somebody else, they may not.

however, I drive at night quite often, and if I hit a deer, I'll take some comfort in knowing my T-Top car won't just crumple as I've seen some of them do when hitting a large object.

so, thats me

they're not a requirement ... they're honestly an extra 20-40 pounds of weight, and don't do a whole lot on a modded suspension...

so while I have them, I agree that not everyone needs them.

Sam Strano

iTrader: (41)

Fair enough...

But if you hit something with the nose, that's what crumples. The SFC's don't even start until behind the firewall.