Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
#2
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Pyramid sucks with both hands. I have not used one, but I have seen one cut open before. The circuit board was literally 1/4 the size of the heatsink, not a good sign.
Dan
Dan
#3
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Just saw in that other thread that you're looking for a good 50x4 amp. Go with a reputable brand like Alpine, JL Audio, Orion, Memphis, DEI, MTX, Rockford, or countless others. You will truly get what you pay for.
FWIW, I have an Alpine MRV-F307 for sale (35x4 at 12 volts, 50x4 at 14.4 volts) that is 6 months old. $230 new, $130 shipped to you.
Dan
FWIW, I have an Alpine MRV-F307 for sale (35x4 at 12 volts, 50x4 at 14.4 volts) that is 6 months old. $230 new, $130 shipped to you.
Dan
#4
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
i had a pyramid 1400 watt amp that powered 2 700 watt 12's and i performed flawlessly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> i used that setup for about 8 months before i blew the 12's. take that for what its worth.
#5
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
I see what your saying BZ but Im not sure spending that much extra $$$ for a name brand is always best. If 2 or more amps have the same specs, such as:
? Variable Low Pass 40Hz-120Hz
? Variable Hi Pass 150Hz-1.5Khz
? 18dB Bass Boost @ 40Hz.
? Frequency Response: 10Hz to 30Khz
? S/N Ratio:97 dB
? THD: 0.02%
and one of them is a name brand while the rest are not so popularly known, why wouldnt the output of each be similar. I mean 18dB of bass is still 18dB of bass know matter what your using. Same with the rest of the specs.
As for the guts of an amp, have you ever opened up your home stereo unit? say for instance your tuner or perhaps the CD player? Chances are the chip board in that is only a freaction of the size its case. Just a thaught. Mine wuz.
What do you think ofPower Acoustik?
<small>[ May 28, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: RobIVPush33 ]</small>
? Variable Low Pass 40Hz-120Hz
? Variable Hi Pass 150Hz-1.5Khz
? 18dB Bass Boost @ 40Hz.
? Frequency Response: 10Hz to 30Khz
? S/N Ratio:97 dB
? THD: 0.02%
and one of them is a name brand while the rest are not so popularly known, why wouldnt the output of each be similar. I mean 18dB of bass is still 18dB of bass know matter what your using. Same with the rest of the specs.
As for the guts of an amp, have you ever opened up your home stereo unit? say for instance your tuner or perhaps the CD player? Chances are the chip board in that is only a freaction of the size its case. Just a thaught. Mine wuz.
What do you think ofPower Acoustik?
<small>[ May 28, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: RobIVPush33 ]</small>
#6
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
In all honest, car audio is the LAST place you need to try and cut corners. A Pyramid amp is going to suck any way you slice it, sorry but it's the truth. You are going to have people saying they are great but those people haven't been exposed to a truely great system. There are plenty of amps out there that put out good power, are affordably priced, and are solid units. Check out USAcoustics, JBL, and Visionik to name a few. They all sell good product and you won't be disappointed in them. Also don't skimp on speakers or anything else either.
Some companies that offer very affordable yet great speakers are Adire Audio (Shiva and Tempest, www.adireaudio.com ), Elemental Designs (K series, www.edesignaudio.com I believe, or just check out www.deltasoundworks.com ), Digital Designs (2000 series, www.ddaudio.com ), JL Audio (JL W0 series, www.jlaudio.com ) and many others. Pay a few more bucks for a solid amp and a nice single sub over a Pyramid amp and 2 "700 watt" subs and I can bet that the single sub on solid, clean power will sound twice as good and easily as loud. 1800 watts from a Pyramid amp is a bogus number, just like companies like SLP quote 15hp from a timing tricker or something, maybe once in a blue moon when the planets align and all is right with the world <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Same with the dB bass boost (first off I think bass boost is basically worthless and a good linear system shouldn't need it, and in the event that it does it wouldn't need more tha + or - 3 dB, but that Pyramid couldn't boost 18 dB to save it's life). As for crossovers, that's an entire other post. There are all kinds of different slopes, the bigger the number the steeper the rolloff. A Pyramid amp probably have a 6 dB/octave crossover, meaning if set at 100 Hz it'll play well above (if low passed) or below (if high passed) that whereas another amp may have an 18 dB/octave slope resulting in it playing less above or below the intented frequency and to me making it sound cleaner in most cases. The only time I can think of a shallower slope being used would be with a tweeter and have it set very high (most passive crossovers that come with components incorporate this, such as a 6 dB/octave high pass at 7,000 Hz and have the mid pick up at 2,500 Hz with a 12 dB/octave filter and thus allowing them to meet in the middle without any dips in the frequency range. Hope that wasn't too technical, moving on....)
The good thing about car audio is that good companies actually UNDERRATE their stuff so you get more than what you are paying for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> What I'm saying is that ANY Pyramid amp would never come close to putting out advertised power. I seriously doubt an 1800w Pyramid amp would put out 180w of clean power. Just my .02 cents, take it for what it's worth. I've been into car audio for almost 5 years now and I've learned a thing or two about what sounds good and what doesn't. Take my advice, spend a little more off the get-go, and save yourself some money in the long run. Best of luck to ya.
<small>[ May 28, 2002, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: josh99ta ]</small>
Some companies that offer very affordable yet great speakers are Adire Audio (Shiva and Tempest, www.adireaudio.com ), Elemental Designs (K series, www.edesignaudio.com I believe, or just check out www.deltasoundworks.com ), Digital Designs (2000 series, www.ddaudio.com ), JL Audio (JL W0 series, www.jlaudio.com ) and many others. Pay a few more bucks for a solid amp and a nice single sub over a Pyramid amp and 2 "700 watt" subs and I can bet that the single sub on solid, clean power will sound twice as good and easily as loud. 1800 watts from a Pyramid amp is a bogus number, just like companies like SLP quote 15hp from a timing tricker or something, maybe once in a blue moon when the planets align and all is right with the world <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Same with the dB bass boost (first off I think bass boost is basically worthless and a good linear system shouldn't need it, and in the event that it does it wouldn't need more tha + or - 3 dB, but that Pyramid couldn't boost 18 dB to save it's life). As for crossovers, that's an entire other post. There are all kinds of different slopes, the bigger the number the steeper the rolloff. A Pyramid amp probably have a 6 dB/octave crossover, meaning if set at 100 Hz it'll play well above (if low passed) or below (if high passed) that whereas another amp may have an 18 dB/octave slope resulting in it playing less above or below the intented frequency and to me making it sound cleaner in most cases. The only time I can think of a shallower slope being used would be with a tweeter and have it set very high (most passive crossovers that come with components incorporate this, such as a 6 dB/octave high pass at 7,000 Hz and have the mid pick up at 2,500 Hz with a 12 dB/octave filter and thus allowing them to meet in the middle without any dips in the frequency range. Hope that wasn't too technical, moving on....)
The good thing about car audio is that good companies actually UNDERRATE their stuff so you get more than what you are paying for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> What I'm saying is that ANY Pyramid amp would never come close to putting out advertised power. I seriously doubt an 1800w Pyramid amp would put out 180w of clean power. Just my .02 cents, take it for what it's worth. I've been into car audio for almost 5 years now and I've learned a thing or two about what sounds good and what doesn't. Take my advice, spend a little more off the get-go, and save yourself some money in the long run. Best of luck to ya.
<small>[ May 28, 2002, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: josh99ta ]</small>
#7
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Josh makes excellent points - I agree 100%. For example, my Alpine amp that I'm selling is rated at 35 RMS watts per channel at 12 volts. It has a birth sheet that comes with the amp that verifies the amp actually puts out 39.5 watts per channel.
MTX is one of the worst offenders of blatantly underrating their amps (a good thing, IMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ). I had a Thunder 5400X for awhile that was rated at 25x4 on the main channels and 100x1 on the sub channel. In actuality, the main channels put out 59.7x4 and the sub channel was at 201 even.
So why do some companies, like Pyramid, Legacy, and Boss overrate their amps? Because people want to buy big numbers at the expense of time invested in researching a good decision. There's also NO regulation to say that this specific amp puts out this specific amount of power on the label. I don't want to disrespect your decision making, but there's a sucker born every minute. Like Josh, car audio has been a hobby for me for 7 years now. I've been around and I know what's good, and Pyramid simply cannot compete with brands that are serious about making QUALITY equipment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Dan
MTX is one of the worst offenders of blatantly underrating their amps (a good thing, IMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ). I had a Thunder 5400X for awhile that was rated at 25x4 on the main channels and 100x1 on the sub channel. In actuality, the main channels put out 59.7x4 and the sub channel was at 201 even.
So why do some companies, like Pyramid, Legacy, and Boss overrate their amps? Because people want to buy big numbers at the expense of time invested in researching a good decision. There's also NO regulation to say that this specific amp puts out this specific amount of power on the label. I don't want to disrespect your decision making, but there's a sucker born every minute. Like Josh, car audio has been a hobby for me for 7 years now. I've been around and I know what's good, and Pyramid simply cannot compete with brands that are serious about making QUALITY equipment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Dan
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#8
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Pyramid amps suck. They definitely overrate their power outputs to sell units. I had one several years ago and it would overheat and clip all the time.
You know why most reputable companies underrate their amps? For sound off competitions. Since most IASCA events are characterized by wattage total classes, its more beneficial for the companies to say they are making less power. 10 years ago, there were guys winning the under 50-watt classes with their Punch 45 amps. I've seen those little "45 watt" amps power a pair of 15" subs no problem and sound great. Guys in the 100-200 watt classes were running 4 of those amps and kicking ***.
You definitely get what you pay for. You just need to determine how clean you want your sound to be, and what type of music you prefer. If all you listen to is speed metal or punk rock, then sonic clarity is less important than if you listen to classical.
Tony
You know why most reputable companies underrate their amps? For sound off competitions. Since most IASCA events are characterized by wattage total classes, its more beneficial for the companies to say they are making less power. 10 years ago, there were guys winning the under 50-watt classes with their Punch 45 amps. I've seen those little "45 watt" amps power a pair of 15" subs no problem and sound great. Guys in the 100-200 watt classes were running 4 of those amps and kicking ***.
You definitely get what you pay for. You just need to determine how clean you want your sound to be, and what type of music you prefer. If all you listen to is speed metal or punk rock, then sonic clarity is less important than if you listen to classical.
Tony
#9
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
My friend has one of those amps and he doesnt like at all. I am sure that u can find a good deal on a kenwood amp those are not that expensive and well worth the money. If u get one you dont be dissapointed
Drew
Drew
#10
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Rob, is buying used out of the question? Just throwing that idea out there since I got my new amp today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Dan
Dan
#11
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Wow!!! For once I actually helped out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I feel so special <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> But really, while Power Acoustik might not be the dumps like Pyramid and Legacy are, they are far from quality stuff. Do me a favor Rob, tell us what you are looking for (cd player, replacement speakers, sub or subs, amp, whatever) and then give us a budget like how much you'd be willing to spend on all of it, and then I can come up with a great shopping list for you. I can actually put together a really nice system with some decent-to-high quality stuff for not alot of money. And definantly buy off the net and depending on what it is, used isn't a bad thing. Amps usually work or they don't, so a used amp is a really good buy as long as it works. If nothing else look into used amps to get better stuff for your money.
Also, to get your foot in the door, I SERIOUSLY suggest giving my friend's at Crutchfield a call. While ridiculously overpriced, they do have great tech support and can help you out with ANYTHING you need to know For the first 3 years of my car audio experience Crutchfield helped me learn a whole hell of alot. One thing you need to do right off the bat is call them at 1-800-95-3000 and order a free catalog. Also I really recommend paying them $4.99 and getting The Cruthfield Guide to Car Stereo Installation and also a master sheet for your car to show you how to work on it a little bit. Also if you buy something like speakers or a cd player within 30 days they'll credit that $5 toward your purchase. A good rule of thumb is that MOST stuff in Crutchfield is of decent and reputable quality. Call them and ask questions and they'll give you the right info. I found most of the sales people to be fairly knowledgeable and truthful about what is good and what isn't.
If you see something you like in Crutchfield, get on the net and look it up. If you hear or see of a brand that isn't in Crutchfield, get on the net and ask if anyone has experience with them. It's alot to learn but Crutchfield got me started and I've loved car audio ever since then. Best of luck to ya Rob, keep us updated on how it all works out and get back to us with a parts list and budget number. Later.
Also, to get your foot in the door, I SERIOUSLY suggest giving my friend's at Crutchfield a call. While ridiculously overpriced, they do have great tech support and can help you out with ANYTHING you need to know For the first 3 years of my car audio experience Crutchfield helped me learn a whole hell of alot. One thing you need to do right off the bat is call them at 1-800-95-3000 and order a free catalog. Also I really recommend paying them $4.99 and getting The Cruthfield Guide to Car Stereo Installation and also a master sheet for your car to show you how to work on it a little bit. Also if you buy something like speakers or a cd player within 30 days they'll credit that $5 toward your purchase. A good rule of thumb is that MOST stuff in Crutchfield is of decent and reputable quality. Call them and ask questions and they'll give you the right info. I found most of the sales people to be fairly knowledgeable and truthful about what is good and what isn't.
If you see something you like in Crutchfield, get on the net and look it up. If you hear or see of a brand that isn't in Crutchfield, get on the net and ask if anyone has experience with them. It's alot to learn but Crutchfield got me started and I've loved car audio ever since then. Best of luck to ya Rob, keep us updated on how it all works out and get back to us with a parts list and budget number. Later.
#12
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
A perfect example of a system that would be cheap and affordable yet still sound pretty damn good for what it would be and the power involved.
Any head unit of choice (just look online)
Infinty Reference replacement speakers running off head unit (6.5s" front/rear - about $100-130 for both pairs)
Bazooka EL1500 (350x1 @ 4 ohms, 500x1 @ 2 ohms - $55 on ebay)
Image Dynamics 10" or 12" IDQ v.2 (dual voice coil 2 ohm, paralleled for 4 ohm load, 250-350w rms - at or under $100 from www.carmedia1.com )
So without a head unit you're looking at around $250 for 4 speakers of decent quality, a sub, and a decent amp (I have worked with this amp and find it to be solid for the money). You could step up to a little bit better amp like a JBL 180.2 for another $100 and get 360w rms to the sub, either 10" or 12". Lets say you've got a $500 budget, for the Infinity Reference replacements, the Image Dynamics sub, and the Bazooka amp you're looking at $300 let say. That leaves $200 for a decent cd player. Look on www.carmedia1.com or www.thezeb.com for some cd players. Then buy your wiring from Crutchfield so you can get free technical support forever, just a nice 4 gauge amp kit would do it, so $70 for that. Then just build a box or find one online for cheap for around $30-50. So for at or under $600 you'd have a very nice beginner's system that would sound really good.
I'd definantly look into something along those lines. It's not going to be top notch, but the Infinity Reference replacements are nice as is the amp, and that sub has long been known as one of the best subs out there for sound quality so I think you'd come out with a very nice sounding setup for cheap. And just to let you know where you're headed in case you get bitten by the stereo bug, I've spent $1,000 in speakers alone, and I've only got a single 12" sub and a component set up front (1" tweeter, 6.5" woofer) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Just be careful, it can turn into a rather expensive habit if you're not careful (not like it's a bad thing though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> ). Later man.
Any head unit of choice (just look online)
Infinty Reference replacement speakers running off head unit (6.5s" front/rear - about $100-130 for both pairs)
Bazooka EL1500 (350x1 @ 4 ohms, 500x1 @ 2 ohms - $55 on ebay)
Image Dynamics 10" or 12" IDQ v.2 (dual voice coil 2 ohm, paralleled for 4 ohm load, 250-350w rms - at or under $100 from www.carmedia1.com )
So without a head unit you're looking at around $250 for 4 speakers of decent quality, a sub, and a decent amp (I have worked with this amp and find it to be solid for the money). You could step up to a little bit better amp like a JBL 180.2 for another $100 and get 360w rms to the sub, either 10" or 12". Lets say you've got a $500 budget, for the Infinity Reference replacements, the Image Dynamics sub, and the Bazooka amp you're looking at $300 let say. That leaves $200 for a decent cd player. Look on www.carmedia1.com or www.thezeb.com for some cd players. Then buy your wiring from Crutchfield so you can get free technical support forever, just a nice 4 gauge amp kit would do it, so $70 for that. Then just build a box or find one online for cheap for around $30-50. So for at or under $600 you'd have a very nice beginner's system that would sound really good.
I'd definantly look into something along those lines. It's not going to be top notch, but the Infinity Reference replacements are nice as is the amp, and that sub has long been known as one of the best subs out there for sound quality so I think you'd come out with a very nice sounding setup for cheap. And just to let you know where you're headed in case you get bitten by the stereo bug, I've spent $1,000 in speakers alone, and I've only got a single 12" sub and a component set up front (1" tweeter, 6.5" woofer) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Just be careful, it can turn into a rather expensive habit if you're not careful (not like it's a bad thing though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> ). Later man.
#13
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
I've used a pyramid 200W amp and it didn't come close to my Pioneer 200W amp... especially since it blew after 6 months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> My Boss amp lasted a good while and was a significant upgrade before I got my 600W Lanzar Vibe amp <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Like every "mod"... you get what you pay for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
#14
Re: Do PYRAMID amps really suk?
Thanks for the info Josh, you make a solid point and its not too confusing for me to understand. Ive been doing a lot of looking and though Im still undereducated on the performances and numbers that company's put out in their specs I'll have to rely on your alls opinions and recomendations.
A lot of people have recomended alpine, mtx and kenwood as good/reliable amps. The prices on most of these are at the high end of my budget. Though not completely out of reach. Although they might perform higher then my expectations, at this time since Im one of those who havent been exposed to "good systems" anything's gota be better then the manufacturers radio.
Heres one ive been using to compare a lot of others too, based on performance and costs. What do you think of POWER ACOUSTIK ?
I know its not a Kenwood but its not a Pyramid. Im not looking for HIGH QUALITY SHOW STOPPING attention getting sound, just something to give a little extra UMPHH to my current stock stereo.
A lot of people have recomended alpine, mtx and kenwood as good/reliable amps. The prices on most of these are at the high end of my budget. Though not completely out of reach. Although they might perform higher then my expectations, at this time since Im one of those who havent been exposed to "good systems" anything's gota be better then the manufacturers radio.
Heres one ive been using to compare a lot of others too, based on performance and costs. What do you think of POWER ACOUSTIK ?
I know its not a Kenwood but its not a Pyramid. Im not looking for HIGH QUALITY SHOW STOPPING attention getting sound, just something to give a little extra UMPHH to my current stock stereo.