Swirl Marks & Spider Webs! What's the Difference?
06-17-2008, 10:38 AM
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Swirl Marks & Spider Webs! What's the Difference? During the last year I have been reading quite a bit recently about the common mis-understanding about the term "swirl marks". This thread is a result of our observations (Myself: Steve at Tropi Care and Caerwyn Evans of Classic Shine in La Quinta CA, pro paint correction specialist and detailer)
The observations we have seen are consistent in multiple forums and with almost 100% of beginners and novices.
So here it is:
1. Swirl mark (SM): This is a MACHINE INDUCED defect that looks like a hologram, a halogen or a wave that moves around on the paint as you move while looking at the sun's reflection. Real halogens are hard to see under garage light and can really dissapoint people when they get their car back from a body shop or dealer detailer and see it in the sun. It's the micro marring from their poorly finished detailing.
The important thing to understand is that these ultra fine scratches are not usually deeper than 3000 grit and can be as light as 7000 grit. That's right 7000.
Cause: When you cut paint/clear coat with a high speed rotary polisher you will leave swirl marks unless you go over with an appropriate product to eliminate them. A rotary buffer is the only tool that can cause swirl marks.
2. Spider scratches or spider webbing (SW): This is what commonly referred to as Swirl Marks. These are not swirl marks and have only been caused by poor washing and drying techniques. Due to the characteristics of common automotive paint, if you wash your car with incorrect, un-clean materials then you risk inflicting tiny hairline scratches that only show up in circles or spider web patterns.
Using this information, here's an opportunity to look at your paint finish and re-evaluate your decision. If you don't see them, (very common) then you have not looked closely enough before. This is common. After an initial evaluation of a customer's paint surface, they may respond with: "What do you mean? I dont see them?" It takes a short time to train them to be able to see at least a fraction of what we see. Its all about angle and reflection. "How do I see it?" is a common question.
The first thing to do is pull your car out into the sun or use an equivalent natural lighting source such as the hand held Brinkmann Dual Xenon spotlight.
Find the sun's reflection on your hood. The sun will be surrounded by spider web looking lines that catch it's reflection and direct it back to your eye. These are the #1 most common paint flaw.
The purpose for this "CLARIFICATION" is to enable one to accurately purchase the correct product that will remove flaws/defects which are almost exclusively Spider webs, not Swirl marks.
There are many products out there that are named 'Swirl Cutter, Swirl Eliminator, Swirl Free, etc... But they are not designed to remove the spider webs. Please understand that. The primary goal of a Swirl Cutter (our TC-8 is one example) is to remove machine induced Micro-Marring (halogens, holograms, etc..) now understood by many as... Swirl Marks.
NOTE: There are some spider webs that may be as light as some swirl marks so something like Swirl Cutter (TC-8) can improve on them but will not go deep enough to remove them. There are also a lot of products that use the term 'Swirl eliminator, or cut etc.. but are actually compounds that remove spider webs. Our goal is to help clarify which is which so you know the difference. Read the product information before you purchase and find out what type of action it performs.
Now I want to show some pictures of vehicles and I would like to hear from you. Please identify which ones are which. Tell me which one is a spider web and which one is a swirl mark.
Please stay tuned information about our new product release: Swirl Cutter Plus."
Thanks for taking the time to read this and feel free to contact me with any questions.
Photos courtesy of Caerwyn Evans at Classic Shine
The observations we have seen are consistent in multiple forums and with almost 100% of beginners and novices.
So here it is:
1. Swirl mark (SM): This is a MACHINE INDUCED defect that looks like a hologram, a halogen or a wave that moves around on the paint as you move while looking at the sun's reflection. Real halogens are hard to see under garage light and can really dissapoint people when they get their car back from a body shop or dealer detailer and see it in the sun. It's the micro marring from their poorly finished detailing.
The important thing to understand is that these ultra fine scratches are not usually deeper than 3000 grit and can be as light as 7000 grit. That's right 7000.
Cause: When you cut paint/clear coat with a high speed rotary polisher you will leave swirl marks unless you go over with an appropriate product to eliminate them. A rotary buffer is the only tool that can cause swirl marks.
2. Spider scratches or spider webbing (SW): This is what commonly referred to as Swirl Marks. These are not swirl marks and have only been caused by poor washing and drying techniques. Due to the characteristics of common automotive paint, if you wash your car with incorrect, un-clean materials then you risk inflicting tiny hairline scratches that only show up in circles or spider web patterns.
Using this information, here's an opportunity to look at your paint finish and re-evaluate your decision. If you don't see them, (very common) then you have not looked closely enough before. This is common. After an initial evaluation of a customer's paint surface, they may respond with: "What do you mean? I dont see them?" It takes a short time to train them to be able to see at least a fraction of what we see. Its all about angle and reflection. "How do I see it?" is a common question.
The first thing to do is pull your car out into the sun or use an equivalent natural lighting source such as the hand held Brinkmann Dual Xenon spotlight.
Find the sun's reflection on your hood. The sun will be surrounded by spider web looking lines that catch it's reflection and direct it back to your eye. These are the #1 most common paint flaw.
The purpose for this "CLARIFICATION" is to enable one to accurately purchase the correct product that will remove flaws/defects which are almost exclusively Spider webs, not Swirl marks.
There are many products out there that are named 'Swirl Cutter, Swirl Eliminator, Swirl Free, etc... But they are not designed to remove the spider webs. Please understand that. The primary goal of a Swirl Cutter (our TC-8 is one example) is to remove machine induced Micro-Marring (halogens, holograms, etc..) now understood by many as... Swirl Marks.
NOTE: There are some spider webs that may be as light as some swirl marks so something like Swirl Cutter (TC-8) can improve on them but will not go deep enough to remove them. There are also a lot of products that use the term 'Swirl eliminator, or cut etc.. but are actually compounds that remove spider webs. Our goal is to help clarify which is which so you know the difference. Read the product information before you purchase and find out what type of action it performs.
Now I want to show some pictures of vehicles and I would like to hear from you. Please identify which ones are which. Tell me which one is a spider web and which one is a swirl mark.
Please stay tuned information about our new product release: Swirl Cutter Plus."
Thanks for taking the time to read this and feel free to contact me with any questions.
Photos courtesy of Caerwyn Evans at Classic Shine
06-17-2008, 05:55 PM
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Once the defects have been removed and protection products have been applied(wax/sealant), establishing a regular maintenance program will be important. Any towel, wash mitt or applicator pad which will be used in maintaining should be checked by lightly rubbing against an old CD to see if it leaves fine scratches. If they do, find alternatives that do not scratch. The 2-bucket wash method is also helpful in reducing the infliction of new spider scratches.
06-17-2008, 06:01 PM
#7
Here is how most will typically encounter holograms...
These are from very poor details using a rotary. You can easily see the path the incompetent rotary user took when polishing the hood (side-to-side as he was standing on the side of the fender polishing).
These are from very poor details using a rotary. You can easily see the path the incompetent rotary user took when polishing the hood (side-to-side as he was standing on the side of the fender polishing).
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06-17-2008, 10:01 PM
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If you can catch the scratch with your fingernail, it may not come out. If it's not through to the primer, you can try wet sanding the area with 3000 grit and then buffing it back to a shine. If you can't catch it with your fingernail, try SIP on an Orange or Yellow pad. If you only have IP, it's gonna take a while to get it out.
06-18-2008, 08:39 AM
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If you can catch the scratch with your fingernail, it may not come out. If it's not through to the primer, you can try wet sanding the area with 3000 grit and then buffing it back to a shine. If you can't catch it with your fingernail, try SIP on an Orange or Yellow pad. If you only have IP, it's gonna take a while to get it out.
Recently I have been using this style of wet sand paper and foam block.
You'll notice that this paper is very thin and self adhesive to the block. With this 2" thick foam, it gives you a very even sanding cloud without inflicting any deeper scratches as you level the clear coat. The paper is $1.41/sheet and the block as pictured is $13.26. The pink side features a firmer backing for use with 2000 for knocking down orange peel. Grits that are available are 2000, 2500, 3000. These are not on the website. If anyone is interested, please contact me here.
06-18-2008, 08:55 AM
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That's great to hear. Try Arctic's advice first before stepping up to more aggressive techniques. Concentrate in a very small section (1' x1') with your current orange/IP combo to see if you can improve on that 90% mark. If you don't get further improvement, then it will be time to step up to a stronger combo.