First 4l80e build. Here we go!
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 347
Likes: 66
From: Tucson, AZ
So with a little persuasion and some assembly paste, I got the center support on there. I installed it into the case to check rear endplay and I have a few questions.
- do I need to install the sun gear and bearing before I check endplay? I know the shaft will fall out when I flip the unit over so I didn't install the sun gear, bearing, or shaft.
- is there a good place to pry from to get a good endplay reading? I ended up just grabbing the shaft and lifting up a bunch of times to get a repeatable number
-I ended up with .020 for endplay. I have rollerized the output. What should I be shooting for? I have shims I can put under the bearing which should reduce endplay if necessary.
Lastly, looking over my parts, I realized I do not have an intermediate waveplate. Is it possible that this was left out when the last guy was in this tranny?
Thanks for any help and advice!
Here are some pics:
https://imgur.com/a/v20p0Zq
- do I need to install the sun gear and bearing before I check endplay? I know the shaft will fall out when I flip the unit over so I didn't install the sun gear, bearing, or shaft.
- is there a good place to pry from to get a good endplay reading? I ended up just grabbing the shaft and lifting up a bunch of times to get a repeatable number
-I ended up with .020 for endplay. I have rollerized the output. What should I be shooting for? I have shims I can put under the bearing which should reduce endplay if necessary.
Lastly, looking over my parts, I realized I do not have an intermediate waveplate. Is it possible that this was left out when the last guy was in this tranny?
Thanks for any help and advice!
Here are some pics:
https://imgur.com/a/v20p0Zq
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
Every builder has there own preferences.
After my time spent at GM and the testing that I have done since...
I prefer to build with a target of 0.003" per torrington bearing (which is 0.0015" per side of rollers for oil).
The rear section has 3 bearings, plus the one you added at the case.
So I target 0.012" rear-section end-play.
With a rollerized reaction carrier... a 0.010" float.
With a rollerized forward hub... a 0.010" float.
The overdrive section has slop/ play from the input-shaft snap-ring to carrier.
After the slop here is measured, I target 0.006" for the 2 bearings combined and 0.002"- 0.004" for the pump thrust washer.
After my time spent at GM and the testing that I have done since...
I prefer to build with a target of 0.003" per torrington bearing (which is 0.0015" per side of rollers for oil).
The rear section has 3 bearings, plus the one you added at the case.
So I target 0.012" rear-section end-play.
With a rollerized reaction carrier... a 0.010" float.
With a rollerized forward hub... a 0.010" float.
The overdrive section has slop/ play from the input-shaft snap-ring to carrier.
After the slop here is measured, I target 0.006" for the 2 bearings combined and 0.002"- 0.004" for the pump thrust washer.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
Are you using 4 Borg Warner High Energy Intermediate friction plates?
Do you have 4 flat intermediate steel plates?
Are you using a 1994 intermediate clutch piston?
How thick is the Intermediate clutch backing plate; and what is your clutch clearance?
The Late-4L80E units have a different Intermediate clutch piston with a shorter height that incorporates a Waved steel...
without changing clutch clearance.
Do you have 4 flat intermediate steel plates?
Are you using a 1994 intermediate clutch piston?
How thick is the Intermediate clutch backing plate; and what is your clutch clearance?
The Late-4L80E units have a different Intermediate clutch piston with a shorter height that incorporates a Waved steel...
without changing clutch clearance.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,618
Likes: 1,328
From: Iowa
you absolutely need the sun gear and bearing installed to measure endplay.
If you look at the thrust path, the center support will contact that bearing and carry it through the sungear for endplay.
I target .005 TOTAL for rear endplay
Then for front endplay, on a th400 I target rear endplay +.008
On an 80e, I target rear endplay+.011 for front endplay
*should note my specs are for rollerized output and fwd hub
As vortec said...personal preference mainly.
Pick either of our specs and I bet it works just fine!
If you look at the thrust path, the center support will contact that bearing and carry it through the sungear for endplay.
I target .005 TOTAL for rear endplay
Then for front endplay, on a th400 I target rear endplay +.008
On an 80e, I target rear endplay+.011 for front endplay
*should note my specs are for rollerized output and fwd hub
As vortec said...personal preference mainly.
Pick either of our specs and I bet it works just fine!
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 347
Likes: 66
From: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
Are you using 4 Borg Warner High Energy Intermediate friction plates?
Do you have 4 flat intermediate steel plates?
Are you using a 1994 intermediate clutch piston?
How thick is the Intermediate clutch backing plate; and what is your clutch clearance?
The Late-4L80E units have a different Intermediate clutch piston with a shorter height that incorporates a Waved steel...
without changing clutch clearance.
Do you have 4 flat intermediate steel plates?
Are you using a 1994 intermediate clutch piston?
How thick is the Intermediate clutch backing plate; and what is your clutch clearance?
The Late-4L80E units have a different Intermediate clutch piston with a shorter height that incorporates a Waved steel...
without changing clutch clearance.
@vorteciroc I have been pulling the thin intermediate wavy plate from the later models and replacing it with a .070 th400 wave...will this cause any sort of long term problem?
I picked up a rebuild kit at the local transtar and grabbed an extra clutch and friction while I was there. Just waiting on a few parts to come in on Tuesday and then I can jump right in!
What is that cylinder around the output shaft? I have not seen that on other 4l80e's I've looked at.
Here are some pics:
https://imgur.com/a/CkUAfKf
What is that cylinder around the output shaft? I have not seen that on other 4l80e's I've looked at.
Here are some pics:
https://imgur.com/a/CkUAfKf
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
quick hi-jack
@vorteciroc I have been pulling the thin intermediate wavy plate from the later models and replacing it with a .070 th400 wave...will this cause any sort of long term problem?
@vorteciroc I have been pulling the thin intermediate wavy plate from the later models and replacing it with a .070 th400 wave...will this cause any sort of long term problem?
Any of the builds that use a 34-Element sprag, with no extra direct-drum support...
I like to soften the 1-2 shift to try and keep the sprag alive.
Stock, the direct drum is not well supported... and in first gear the speed that it rotates backwards is quite high...
The drum has to instantly completely stop rotating and wobbling, which can destroy the sprag.
I try to support the direct drum as much as possible, with one or both methods:
-Bearing/ pocket machined into the center-support.
-Press-Fit billet sun-gear shaft.
Ideally both ways of supporting the direct drum with a 36-element sprag would be my choice for anything high revving or over 800 HP.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 347
Likes: 66
From: Tucson, AZ
I reinstalled the geartrain tonight with the sun gear and bearing. I left the sun shaft out. I am at .06 endplay.
I installed the intermediate clutches, with the pressure plate but no wave plate and hd snap ring. I'm getting .115 between the snap ring and the top of the pressure plate.
I got my new ck performance direct piston in the mail today. With 6 clutches in there, I have .063 clearance. It came without a seal so I used one from my kit. It feels a lot looser than the molded piston. Here is a video demonstrating that: https://imgur.com/a/HIziH21
I installed the intermediate clutches, with the pressure plate but no wave plate and hd snap ring. I'm getting .115 between the snap ring and the top of the pressure plate.
I got my new ck performance direct piston in the mail today. With 6 clutches in there, I have .063 clearance. It came without a seal so I used one from my kit. It feels a lot looser than the molded piston. Here is a video demonstrating that: https://imgur.com/a/HIziH21
Last edited by Novapat67; Sep 21, 2020 at 11:14 PM.
TECH Junkie
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1,391
From: Nitro Alley
Without getting into too much detail...
You need to always Air-Check the apply piston and ensure that the circuit seals.
The molded-steel pistons have a larger sealing surface area compared to the old-fashioned Lip-seals + aluminum pistons.
But with new/ good Lip-seals, they operate perfectly.
Always double check your seals and Air-Check the pistons.
Add your waved-steel plate to the 0.115" intermediate clutch clearance... (if you have a 0.070" waved-steel) and you have 0.045" clearance with four plates.
That is acceptable.
You need to always Air-Check the apply piston and ensure that the circuit seals.
The molded-steel pistons have a larger sealing surface area compared to the old-fashioned Lip-seals + aluminum pistons.
But with new/ good Lip-seals, they operate perfectly.
Always double check your seals and Air-Check the pistons.
Add your waved-steel plate to the 0.115" intermediate clutch clearance... (if you have a 0.070" waved-steel) and you have 0.045" clearance with four plates.
That is acceptable.
