dsz28

So GM is going to set up a research center in shanghai China? The (real) reasons why Ive heard is because of lower wages and a surplus of engineers. I dont have all the facts and that being said, it makes me a little angry. Build the cars in Canada, build a new $250 million research center in China, and promote American loyalty on their commercials? Bull ****.

Here is a link to an article
http://www.ocala.com/article/2007102...e=storydetails

Chadder

iTrader: (2)

So? GM still contributes more to the U.S. economy than all other import brands combined. If this help's 'em out, more power to them. I'm just interested in what kind of advances could we see here in the near future from this 'research center'

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

No, you dont. The facts are that GM does a lot of business in China, and Buick is one of the best selling and fastest growing brands there. Although I would not like the idea of one of the GM "crown jewel" brands being produced there, research so they can sell more product there is not a bad idea.

And in the end the profits will contribute to our gross national product, and that is good for the US.

WECIV

All in the name of lower prices...get rid of those US jobs. We throw away our economy producing everything overseas, and now we do our research overseas as well. Combine this with foreign loans floating our government. He who lends and he who builds rules the world...that is why we ruled the post-WWII world, not because we won the War. Our Country is acting so foolishly.

W

dailydriver

Basically, you're right. But I get the sense that GM (and hopefully the other domestics as well) DO NOT want to make the same mistake they did with Japan after WW2. When they (and our government) built up, reconstructed, and generally helped the Nippons (with NO STAKE/sharing of the potential profits themselves) to get back on their feet and eventually kick our azzes, economically/trade wise.
I feel this is a step for GM to get in "on the ground floor"/get a foothold in China, and avoid the TOTAL ONSLAUGHT, as has happened with Japan over the last 45 years.
Just think of where OUR economy would be today IF we had a claim on even a third of those Camry/Corolla/Accord/Civic trillions of $$$$ of profits!!!! (Instead of the "rising sunners" getting it ALL. )

NHRAMAN

iTrader: (1)

Lumping CANADA in with China is sheer stupidity. ALSO--if you check your history, GENERAL MOTORS basically Started in Canada.....with the McLAUGHLIN. GM's first car.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

It isn't the end of the world, however, it might look like that.

GM does research for each type of platform in different areas. You can't assume things about stuff you don't understand. Which I don't even. Heh.

All large RWD car research is done in Aussie land. All small car research is done in Europe. All small truck research is done in Brazil.

Besides, GM has been operating in China for awhile and they still use a good quantity of US research and parts made in the USA.

Did you know that GM makes cars for market in India? They can't sell the same stuff to the rest of the world as they do in the USA. They can't simply afford it. If the rest of the world is to buy products which add to the USA's GDP then they have to do some of the work out of the USA.

China NEEDS hybrid technology so that is the natural place to start researching it.

dsz28

Does non US work better for you?

My point in this thread was (retorical) why not build in the US? Why not do research in the US? We have engineers, scientists etc.
I guess GM paying John Cougar to sing "Our Country" in the comercials makes it all better

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

hahah Hopefully they are very careful how they split things. We will just have to have faith they don't take away what I consider GM's angle is: In the USA, high standards from affordable to luxury.

ChaseSS

iTrader: (17)

I would be surprised to see GM shipping cars from China to sell here, I think most of what happens at that plant is for overseas development (especially in china, the fastest growing economy and has potential to be the largest economy) Do you think the Japanese are pissed because yota makes cars over here and sells them here? No, because there is still money being sent back to japan

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

I see this as a good thing, but i may be wrong. Aren't the automotive laws in asia more strict than they are here? Maybe researching and developing some models over there can help with some of the problems we have been having with our cars.
-Joel

10.5 Dave

iTrader: (5)

Astronomical costs related to the EPA,UAW,labor laws,workers compensation and other reason's.

It's a global economy and U.S shareholders like it when the company saves money.

modmotor

Isnt ironic, that the same people you consistently demote and criticize are the ones that will build your cars? How is this any more American, than Toyota building their cars in the states by American workers? So let me get this straight. GM is building a 250 million dollar facility in a foreign country, in which 250 million will be invested into the Chinese economy. Further, they will hire thousands and thousands of Chinese workers to further injest more money into their economy. So now I guess, all the money will go back to "Amerippons"lol

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

No where did it say they will be building cars for US sale in China, it just states it is for research. China is a very fast growing economy and GM does a lot of business there. It makes sense to research a product where you are going to sell it.

It is more American because it is an American owned company that employs 6x the number of people in the US than the largest Japanese auto maker. Also the profits come back state side and contribute to our GNP and strengthen our stock market and economy.

I do not know how many Chinese they will be hiring, but I highly doubt that a $250m research facility will hire "thousands and thousands". Also, just like Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc. they will only infuse as much money as is needed to stay competitive and turn a profit(those would be known as operating costs and not profits). In the end the profits benefit the origin country.

I figured I would address your "questions" one by one.

modmotor

"""It is more American because it is an American owned company that employs 6x the number of people in the US than the largest Japanese auto maker. Also the profits come back state side and contribute to our GNP and strengthen our stock market and economy."""

Its not more American if you have non Americans assembling the vehicles. The material will not be coming from the US to assemble these vehicles. I gaurantee you, the majority of the parts will come from China. So once again, how is this any different than what Toyota is doing?

Gm could have easliy invested 250 million into the US ecomomy, while providing Americans with income.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

You obviously have not read the article.

Nowhere in the article did it say ANYTHING about assembling vehicles there. Not in any part of the article did it mention this facility being used to manufacture vehicles, so you guaranteeing the parts wont come from there is true- because there is no parts.

And again, it is different than what Toyota is doing because it is an American company. If investing a relatively small amount of money will allow GM to export more product from the US than it currently does and to also make more profits than it currently does, then it is a good thing for the US economy. Now if it were a Japanese or Chinese owned company that was building a facility here to find out how to sell more of their vehicles here, then that would not be a good thing.

American company + doing foreign research to export more products = good for the American economy.

Foreign Company + doing US research to import more products here = bad for the US economy.


In other words I would rather see an American company doing well than a foreign one.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

I guess. Seems like you think GM is only growing out in one direction. Without comparing investments in all other areas you might not see the whole picture.

GM does research all over the world. Toyota doesn't. Honda doesn't. It isn't as though GM is solely moving in on China. I have seen them doing projects for years in China.

Not to further tip the scales away from you but hybrid tech isn't that big in the North American Market anyways. I don't think this is going to take sales or jobs away from us.

I know a hybrid calibrator that works for Ford for like 5 years and he was looking for another job recently. heh.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

GM has always functioned completely differently in major foreign car markets than the Japanese have here. They have built indigenous car companies with their own identities that manufacture their own product locally. Think Vauxhall, Opel, Holden ... and now GM Daewoo. GM China will eventually be a Chinese car company that is a part of GM's worldwide product family.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda will never American the way Holden is Australian - no matter how many Americans buy them. GM's strategy is sound for the long run, building a sense of ownership of and loyalty to the brands in their native country.

And, as stated above, ultimately, the profits return here, rather than staying in Asia.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors#GM_in_China

Just adding further Info.


http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=22996
This one supports GM by showing that they are adding to US econ even though they do work overseas. It also states imports hurt us even though they do biz here.

firecrotch59

Just wanted to put this out there that automation takes jobs three to one compared to outsourcing to a foreign company. Are we going to stop automating jobs and making processes more efficient??? Not likely. China and India are creating three times the amount of college educated workers compared the US and more than 5 times the amount of engineers. Its no surprise that GM is thinking of manufacturing in China, its a LOT cheaper to do so while INCREASING the quality of the product manufactured. Yea I said it.....go ahead and flame away but its true.