Katech_Jason

iTrader: (19)

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

oh, my mistake, i read his numbers wrong. With his 420/399...your right that i COULD be a 224 cam but you never know with the variables that can take place in any motor combination.

here is a 231/237 cam on stock heads....yes, they are stock heads but still a 230ish duration cam making way under the 420/399rwhp line..

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/405843-tsp-231-237-stock-heads-results.html

Now, i believe your experience has left you blinded because yes, there have been numerous cases where the 90mm fast has generarted 15rwhp or more on a stock cube motor....

hold a sec...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/428300-fast-78-v-90mm-stock-bottom-end.html

ok, here is one where a guy swapped out for a fast 90. Previously, he had a ls6/slp lt'z and went to the fast and a set of QTP lt'z. He picked up nicely an dover the 10rwhp. Yeah, the hearders added a but more but still the significance of the fast manifold is still there.

heres his dyno sheet...

http://home.att.net/~carlos.ramirez1...2/site1048.jpg

Heres another thread..

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/422702-fast-90-90-gains-nick-williams-throttle-body.html

The same guy posted here as above and another two mentioned that they did in fact get over the 10rwhp range. ONE guy said that he got under you mark of 10rwhp but like i said, you never know with these things. One thing is for sure is that a tune will make or break any motor combo. However, the benefits of porting the fast intake are well worth the the extra cash/time put into porting it.

Oh,....your gonna love this one...

SHAZZAM!!!!

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/361298-fast-90-90-gains-27-rwhp-small-cammed-346-a.html

Well, you can read..... AFR 205's, cheatR cam, stock manifolds...ported 90mm fast intake..... 27rwhp!!! He made 411/387 which is lower than ls6ctsv but the again the significance of the fast manifold speaks for itself...Oh, this also strengths my earlier claim that you never know what can happen on a dyno with a properly tuned/setup motor combo

I can do this all day long because the FAST manifold is a proven winner. My issue and that of many ppl is that it has a high sticker price and that makes us all look at the power per dollar ratio which in reality, will never be good enough...even with a FI motor!!

Now, i agree with jamie and subsequently your statement where the original postr' or anyone for that matter...needs to be 120% honest with themselves and see what they want to do with their ride. You'll spend WAY more money not having a set plan of attack and end up with a car that is over budget and under powerd! Yeah, the fast setup is cashola...but you pay the good, quality stuff (which you should still be careful where you spend you money)...and you usually get what you payed for.

I already explained what i like about the fast and its more than just hte power numbers, its a nice piece that just "finishes" of the total engine package and will net more and more power with time. The more you throw at it, the more it CAN deliever....You see, its more than just dyno peak numbers to me, and the fast, IMO, is well worth the investment. I understand that you have you opinion on th fast and thats fine, we should all have atleast an idea of how things work. Also, your experience wih the fast wasnt that good, but that doesnt mean your exp is final... on average, the fast WILL generate over the 10-15rwhp when compared to a ls6 or even their 78mm setup...the 90mm just has that much potential...and its hould for almost the same price as a "decent h/c package" if not slighty used.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

nice gains, that should be close to 400rwhp on a dynojet right?

the KAT-4074 cam, is this just on a bolt-on plus cam car or is this a package deal ya'll offer?

Katech_Jason

iTrader: (19)

Yea

That dyno sheet was taking a stock CTS-V and installing our Torquer cam...nothing else.

We have package deals also.

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

You may want to read the links you provided again.

My experiance with the fast 90 on a mild cam 346 is real. Nothing else changed but the intake and tune for it done on the dyno within 1 hour of the basline numbers. I'm curious, do you have any personal experiance, or just forum experiance? The examples you provided leave a bunch to be desired with a lot of questions about components, tune, previous tune, cam size, injectors being changed with the intake, ported fast 90, exhaust changed with intake etc. Thanks for taking the time to try and prove your point, close but no cigar. If the guy wants to pop the $$$ great, just hope is isn't expecting to much for his super mild combo.

Here is what I posted, in general, FAST 90's gain about 10rwhp / 10rwt over a 346 with a LS6 setup with a decent cam and heads. I gained that same 10 / 10 on a 346, 228/230 xer 114, heads that flowed like AFR 205's.
Notice I said "in general", will some make more...yes, will some make less... yes, but making a blanket statement that they avg. 15rwhp on a stock engine is not valid, he already has the ls6 intake. JMO of course.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

thats your opinion and it will be taken as that...just an opinion. I have shown evidence that your claims arent exactly a fact but more of a representation of your opinion which is based on your exp. Most likely you can careless what another might do or say just so you can be on the opposing side to ANY arguement, discusion..thread topic..that is brought up on any forum. Its just your nature i guess.....

Mild cam? Is not the thunder cheatR cam considered a mild cam? Yeah, it has a nice lift spec but its no where near the 231/237 or my 246/248 camor a 256/261 cam i saw on a solid roller not to long ago. You stated that you could only get 10rwhp with heads that flow "as good" as the AFR'z and with a pretty decent cam spec. Cant remember exactly but its bigger than the cheatr cam right? 228/230 something? The point is that this person pulled a 27rwhp iincrease with a solid tune, stock exhaust!! Thats pretty mild...it seems that it wasnt the intake that prevailed but the combo itself was well balanced...something i believe you should or should have checked before sticking to your story. Heads that flow like ARF'z? I heard that before and have seen first hand of H/c that claim that and never come close. MAybe your tune wasnt up to par definitely you needed/need some work on something and its not the fast.

Ask the questions and i will answer. Im interested in knowing what more do you need or "information desired" that hasnt already been gathered. I appreciate your gratitude towards my "attempt" but I'll just let the numbers speak for themselves...again its evident that you never had a good fast experience but maybe you can see that though yours didnt perfomr for you, doesnt mean that other will have similar, and i have proven that they havent... results as you have had in the past.

I understood your post and your use of words...that is why i replied the way i did. It is easier to stay with claims that are generalized since you have a larger margain of error...you , just incase things go sour.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

any specs you can give out or are they "top secret"? that sounds like a healthy cam!!

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

[QUOTE=obZidian]thats your opinion and it will be taken as that...just an opinion. I have shown evidence that your claims arent exactly a fact but more of a representation of your opinion which is based on your exp. Most likely you can careless what another might do or say just so you can be on the opposing side to ANY arguement, discusion..thread topic..that is brought up on any forum. Its just your nature i guess.....

I only oppose ignorant post's and claim's that internet racers like you make. You've shown third person flawed evidence at best, I actually did it on the dyno. I'll ask you again, do you have any factual real world experiance with a Fast intake???

Mild cam? Is not the thunder cheatR cam considered a mild cam? Yeah, it has a nice lift spec but its no where near the 231/237 or my 246/248 camor a 256/261 cam i saw on a solid roller not to long ago. You stated that you could only get 10rwhp with heads that flow "as good" as the AFR'z and with a pretty decent cam spec. Cant remember exactly but its bigger than the cheatr cam right? 228/230 something? The point is that this person pulled a 27rwhp

((with a PORTED Fast 90 intake and a baseline that was 10 rwhp less than his previous, maybe a tune was in order before the swap, just to isolate the intake))

iincrease with a solid tune, stock exhaust!! Thats pretty mild...it seems that it wasnt the intake that prevailed but the combo itself was well balanced...something i believe you should or should have checked before sticking to your story

.(( Maybe you should take some of your own advice))

Heads that flow like ARF'z?

(( Well since I was standing next to Tony Mamo when he flowed them in HIS office on HIS bench, yeah, like AFR's.))

I heard that before and have seen first hand of H/c that claim that and never come close. MAybe your tune wasnt up to par definitely you needed/need some work on something and its not the fast

.(( Let's see, a 346 C5 M6 with said heads, 228/230 114 cam, fast 90/90, Dynatech LT's w/cats, oh I almost forgot 4.10's rolled 443/405.... yep, that suck's. ))


Ask the questions and i will answer. Im interested in knowing what more do you need or "information desired" that hasnt already been gathered. I appreciate your gratitude towards my "attempt" but I'll just let the numbers speak for themselves...

(( your examples are flawed))

again its evident that you never had a good fast experience

(( I've used a fast 90 on 3 LSx engines, and they have all given me the performance expected, now once again, how many have you run??))

but maybe you can see that though yours didnt perfomr for you, doesnt mean that other will have similar, and i have proven that they havent... results as you have had in the past.

((Yeah, whatever.))

I understood your post and your use of words...that is why i replied the way i did. It is easier to stay with claims that are generalized since you have a larger margain of error...you , just incase things go sour.

(( Wow, that's brilliant!!!))

I'll paste my previous comment here...."the "intake" is not the major restriction, there is plenty of power to found by rerouting the induction path, getting rid of the 90' and heat soak airbox location." Have you done any real world testing to back up your opinions??

Now that I think about it, I doubt he would see 10 rwhp by adding a Fast90 to the stock inlet track.

Please respond with FACT, actual trial and error that YOU do. I would take you more seriously if you actually had some real world information.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

the fact is that the fast manifold isnt just a good for dyno numbers...... it is known and well documented that the more you throw at it, the more it can and will produce.

the threads i linked ARE your facts. Your claims can be just as flawed as my own.... but why bother because we clearly see now that when trying to have a discussion/arguement with a fool is like getting mad at your own shadow because he wont leave you alone.....

Now, on the V.....dont upset because you got the worst color option!!! WE all, or i hope, know that first of, the cone style filter is more restrictive than a panel style filte like the ones found in a camaro. So, yeah, they're is one restirction that can be fixed. Also, the 90* elbow is OBVIOUSLY another restriction that can be addressed. I doubt that you'll find more heat soak in the V'z air box than you'll find on your precious vette.

But if there is than "notice my choice of words...i said doubt, which means i could be wrong but i probably wont admit it unless i have to." thanks for the lesson!!

So, furthermore, i never said that the intake is the most restictive but i did say that he would see some nice gains if he did go to a 90mm fast unit. I know the ls6 manifold is a good, reliable intake.

But cannot say with an honesty in your bones that the fast will not hold its own and surpass just about any manifold on the market. IF you do than we both know who "brilliant". Also, you can try to call me out, just like you do to everyone else, so you can try to discredit me inorder to give merit to your claims because:

A) i really dont care...
and
B) You cannot deny the facts when they are evident in those threads and countless others...

tag you it!!!

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

obZidian]the fact is that the fast manifold isnt just a good for dyno numbers...... it is known and well documented that the more you throw at it, the more it can and will produce.

the threads i linked ARE your facts. Your claims can be just as flawed as my own (( you don't have any claims, because you have not done anything))

.... but why bother because we clearly see now that when trying to have a discussion/arguement with a fool is like getting mad at your own shadow because he wont leave you alone.....

(( stop posting ))

Now, on the V.....dont upset because you got the worst color option!!! WE all, or i hope, know that first of, the cone style filter is more restrictive than a panel style filte like the ones found in a camaro.

(( What the hell are you talking about....thanks for proving my point concerning your complete ignorance))

So, yeah, they're is one restirction that can be fixed. Also, the 90* elbow is OBVIOUSLY another restriction that can be addressed.

(( how would you adress it?? Come on, don't ignore this one like all the rest of my questions))

I doubt that you'll find more heat soak in the V'z air box than you'll find on your precious vette.

(( really, you "doubt it"......have you looked under the hood of your V?? Have you held the MAF on your V during start up and a dyno run to see if the there is a blast of heat surrounding the box. How about a precious Vette?? Do you know how the intake track is layed out?? Thanks again for the display of ignorance. Don't be a hater based on your own ignorance))

But if there is than "notice my choice of words...i said doubt, which means i could be wrong but i probably wont admit it unless i have to." thanks for the lesson!!

So, furthermore, i never said that the intake is the most restictive but i did say that he would see some nice gains if he did go to a 90mm fast unit. I know the ls6 manifold is a good, reliable intake.

((Define nice, I recall you saying 15 rwhp on a stock motor and more when modded))

But cannot say with an honesty in your bones that the fast will not hold its own and surpass just about any manifold on the market.

(( Well, I'll be testing Edelbrocks new LSx manifold in a few weeks on my Fast 90 equipped 408, I'll be sure and let you know. Opps, there I go again, actually putting my money where my mouth is, you should try it sometime))

IF you do than we both know who "brilliant". Also, you can try to call me out, just like you do to everyone else, so you can try to discredit me inorder to give merit to your claims because:

(( Your comments above.... hah, you discredit yourself.))

A) i really dont care... (( sure you do))
and
B) You cannot deny the facts when they are evident in those threads and countless others... (( what facts, I want to see your own facts high roller))

tag you it!!!

Call you out, there's no need. You took it upon yourself to post a bunch of flawed tests to try and prove your point.

Your knowledge is the flavor of the day. You prove that with every post. So let me ask you one more time, do you have any personal experiance with the FAST 90 intake? I'm posting that one question to you AGAIN, since you seem to ignore it every other time I ask. But then again, your lack of an answer is answer enough.

Back to school Jr. I just hope the guy asking the question has a bit for common sense than you before he spends his money.

If you want to test a part, you test it same day, same conditions with no other "parts" or changes. You take out as many variables as you can. It's really that simple, and when and if you think about it, you should see the rationale in it.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

dude, your absolutely pathetic.... Or actually, the comic relief here on ls1tech since there is really no need to ban a good source to laugh at....

I have experience but as soon as i bring it up, you'll just try to discredit me...AGAIN!! So bait all you want, you'll not get your fix from me!! buhahahahahhha!!!!! Your turning or trying to turn my words around on me and in the end, we both know the truth. I wonder, how word specific are you or can you read between the lines....

So, again, why even bother trying with ya 2c5...this is wat you live for and its obviously you havent the finest clue how big of an assclown you make yourself to be.... but im sure you already knew that!! (sorry, couldnt help myself, to funny!!! hahahah!!!!)

Heres a hint...you can use all the big words you want and type a hard hitting sentence all you want....but in the end, your just another monkey with a keyboard and a dictionario by his side. Your an interent bully and thats it...why not use you knowledge to actually help out and not cause an uproar because it is more that obvious that is what your really here for....

But, im not typing this to insult you or to make you loose face infront of the rest of the members because frankly, they are either enjoying our little chat or not giving a fly-shananagan. So i find it a waste to even try to find a proper phrase that can capture the quintessense of 2c5.

Most importantly however, i am typing this message just so you can get this clear and understand my point of view. You can think all you want because i can put my 408ci on the line, (which makes more power than your by the way!! ).....that you will reply or maybe not but only time will tell... My bet is in though...

Anyways, i type this so you can understand that the only reason you are still here on ls1tech is because your presence is needed to add a bit "o'flava" to the daily discussions. Without ppl like you im sure it COULD get quite boring though the abundance of info here is enough to keep us all tuned in until the sun comes up!!

Again, no insult intended, honestly..may i be struck by lightening if i am.... but just you can get this clear, bully your way around all you want, your not helping the cause by acting the way you do...you can do whatever de lo que se te sale de los cojones, i hold no control over anyone.

Good luck to ya, can wait for your next post hahahhaha....!!

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

obZidian]dude, your absolutely pathetic.... Or actually, the comic relief here on ls1tech since there is really no need to ban a good source to laugh at....

(( you mean a good source of real information ))


I have experience but as soon as i bring it up, you'll just try to discredit me...AGAIN!! So bait all you want, you'll not get your fix from me!! buhahahahahhha!!!!! Your turning or trying to turn my words around on me and in the end, we both know the truth. I wonder, how word specific are you or can you read between the lines....

(( "experiance...well by all means share it, take your own advice you give me further down in this post ...nice try, avoid the questions because the answers are obvious.... "neophyte"))

So, again, why even bother trying with ya 2c5...this is wat you live for and its obviously you havent the finest clue how big of an assclown you make yourself to be.... but im sure you already knew that!! (sorry, couldnt help myself, to funny!!! hahahah!!!!)

(( that makes a bunch of sense!!! It's clear who the "assclown" is ))


Heres a hint...you can use all the big words you want and type a hard hitting sentence all you want....but in the end, your just another monkey with a keyboard and a dictionario by his side. Your an interent bully and thats it...why not use you knowledge to actually help out and not cause an uproar because it is more that obvious that is what your really here for....

(( uproar...... help out.......knowledge..... thanks for compliment, but getting through the wall of ignorance to the misled is tough. I keep pushing though, I doubt you'll come around, but that's o.k., helping out members of the short bus is a pleasure ))


But, im not typing this to insult you or to make you loose face infront of the rest of the members because frankly, they are either enjoying our little chat or not giving a fly-shananagan. So i find it a waste to even try to find a proper phrase that can capture the quintessense of 2c5.

(( nice try, more of that college text book ejamucation coming out I see ))

Most importantly however, i am typing this message just so you can get this clear and understand my point of view. You can think all you want because i can put my 408ci on the line, (which makes more power than your by the way!! ).....

(( here's a post from you on 12-21-05 "ME, well, i know that i could make 500rwhp with a great tune, which im working on right now....but im more than happy with a 490rwhp n/a through a 4l65e a4."

Give it up, the more you type, the more it's obvious that your F.O.S. I must add, 490 rwhp is bit shy of my 519 rwhp. It's obvious that facts are not your strong point. I'm curious, is there anything you excel at???))

that you will reply or maybe not but only time will tell... My bet is in though...

Anyways, i type this so you can understand that the only reason you are still here on ls1tech is because your presence is needed to add a bit "o'flava" to the daily discussions. Without ppl like you im sure it COULD get quite boring though the abundance of info here is enough to keep us all tuned in until the sun comes up!!

(( so I glad I humor you, seeing as you're such a step above the rest of us Mr bigtime "gangsta wannabe" ))

Again, no insult intended, honestly..may i be struck by lightening if i am.... but just you can get this clear, bully your way around all you want, your not helping the cause by acting the way you do...you can do whatever de lo que se te sale de los cojones, i hold no control over anyone.

(( I'm curious, do EVER respond to direct questions???? You take the time to post a lenghty rebutal to me, then you ***** out on every point in question. I just love your debate skills. So I'll say it again, when people don't respond to direct questions, it's because they HAVE no experiance to draw from so they can answer, like StealthV, the silence is deafening. ))

Good luck to ya, can wait for your next post hahahhaha....!!

(( just answer the questions "G"))

Parker TX

iTrader: (16)

What happened to the intake discussion?! Why don't both of you quit acting like children and posting pointless bs. My .02.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

to summarize...

This discussion started with me stating that ls6ctsv would see some nice gains if he went with a fast 90/90 setup. The gains that have and will continue is substancial enough to make the investment in the manfiold. However, i really like the manifold over the other manifolds because all of the extra features it has, making it that much more worth it. I already mentioned these.....

So, to go back, on a mild modded motor, cams(small)/heads/exhaust.....this is where the fast really show you the numbers...if that is what your interested in. An average gain of 15rwhp is the norm and ppl have seen above and below that. My issue is with ppl that get the fast, not get what they expected and than completely bash the unit.

Thats ok and that is why we have opinions for. But one cannot just simply dismiss the fast if everyone else is getting nice numbers and a few are not. Which makes me believe that maybe it isnt the fast but the most likely it is the cam specthat isnt optimal or maybe its in the tune. Head port velocity? Fuel delievery? Timing? Whatever it is, there is something "off" in the motor which doesnt allow the fast to do its job correctly.

So yeah, imo, ls6ctsv's motor would like the fast 90 setup and only get better with time. That is a FACT. Not everyone agrees that the fast is worth the cash and that is fine....i do. Most ppl dont see the worth in just the r&d that went into a product and just cant wait to bash. But in saying the fast isnt worth or isnt capable of producing the numbers while adding some nice features is an absolute lie!! You cannot simply ignore what others have done because you cannot reproduce similar gains....

parker, my bad but, this is to funny!!!!! I promise that's it.....

My 490rwhp is through my 4l65e a4...uh, automatic trans chingon. Your 519rwhp is through a m6..it says it right there in your sig c5 tsp 408" 519rwhp/488rwt.

Put a m6 infront of my motor and well, you can see where this is going. Shows how good of a source of information you are....

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

obZidian]to summarize...

This discussion started with me stating that ls6ctsv would see some nice gains if he went with a fast 90/90 setup. The gains that have and will continue is substancial enough to make the investment in the manfiold. However, i really like the manifold over the other manifolds because all of the extra features it has, making it that much more worth it. I already mentioned these.....

(( But you don't own one))


So, to go back, on a mild modded motor, cams(small)/heads/exhaust.....this is where the fast really show you the numbers...if that is what your interested in. An average gain of 15rwhp is the norm and ppl have seen above and below that. My issue is with ppl that get the fast, not get what they expected and than completely bash the unit.

(( I never bashed, I've had it on 3 engines. How many have you had??? ))

Thats ok and that is why we have opinions for. But one cannot just simply dismiss the fast if everyone else is getting nice numbers and a few are not. Which makes me believe that maybe it isnt the fast but the most likely it is the cam specthat isnt optimal or maybe its in the tune. Head port velocity? Fuel delievery? Timing? Whatever it is, there is something "off" in the motor which doesnt allow the fast to do its job correctly.

(( yeah 443 rwhp with basic h/c is horrible ))

So yeah, imo, ls6ctsv's motor would like the fast 90 setup and only get better with time. That is a FACT. Not everyone agrees that the fast is worth the cash and that is fine....i do.

(( You don't own one, so much for believing in it))

Most ppl dont see the worth in just the r&d that went into a product and just cant wait to bash. But in saying the fast isnt worth or isnt capable of producing the numbers while adding some nice features is an absolute lie!! You cannot simply ignore what others have done because you cannot reproduce similar gains....

parker, my bad but, this is to funny!!!!! I promise that's it.....

My 490rwhp is through my 4l65e a4...uh, automatic trans chingon. Your 519rwhp is through a m6..it says it right there in your sig c5 tsp 408" 519rwhp/488rwt.

((Yes, it's very funny..... please read post number 5..... https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/410291-drivetrain-loss.html ...... been there, done that. Let's review.... my 238/242 cam to your 24?/24? cam, you have 3.23's to my 4.10's, which soak up at a min. 10rwhp and my IRS.... well, compared to your solid axle, let's say another 10 rwhp. Oh yeah, I'm on 91 octane Cali gas... You lose, again. ))

Put a m6 infront of my motor and well, you can see where this is going. Shows how good of a source of information you are....

(( ouch, that must have HURT ))

I'm done..... this is toooo damn easy.

blkZ28spt

Just let it go, both of you.

Emphasis on the fact that it is childish.

obZidian

iTrader: (2)

i completely agree.....