tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Just to give you a comparison, my 408 cost $3600 for the short block. Now that price didnt include ATI balancer, ARP studs, ARP head bolts, LS7 lifters, custom Comp Cam, Kaetech timing chain, and LS6 valley cover. After all the goodies were added it brought the running total up to $5600. The reason I had someone else handle the machine work and assemble the short block was for a lack of time on my part and costs. I might could have saved a couple hundred dollars doing it myself but then maybe not running back and forth to the machine shop etc.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

How much would it cost you to source out another 6.0? You could find a short block and use your heads. Keep your current 6.0 for a future stroker. You could prolly source out a shortblock 6.0 for less than $600 and you wouldnt have to do diddly to it.

MisterD

What he said. So sorry to hear about this. Now I am going to have to take a look inside my LS1 to make sure everything is okay...

futureuser

iTrader: (1)

I bet if you looked, you could find some factory L99, L92 or LS3 pistons for next to nothing if you're going to bore your block.

Or maybe just a quick hone and some LS2 or LQ9 pistons to get a compression bump?

There's still a chance you could polish the rod journal and bearing, clean things up and put it back together? Your bores are still good and the more I look at your pics, the more I think the rust in the areas that contact is minimal.

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

That's what I was thinking. I believe most if not all of that will clean up enough that rings and bearings will have you running fine.

1096s

Clint,
Sorry to read of your eng' drama's, best you found them now not later. What year is your motor? I'm looking at getting the Texas Speed VVT2 cam package for mine. The link you had up in an earlier post for the phaser limiter v's core info' doesn't work. So i thought if I knew what year your engine is it would give me an idea when the new phasers were introduced, without having to pull my w/pump to check number, just yet.

Cheers,
Barra.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

The link worked okay for me this morning (link), but just in case here is the bulletin quoted below. My engine is a 2007 and had the "new style" actuator. I would not risk buying a cam without checking the part number. As you can see from the bulletin, the years overlap with both phasers being used from 2007-2008. I wouldn't trust GM to have "phased" out the older core completely by 2009; you just never know what kind of old invetory may have been stuff into your engine. Removing the water pump to check this is probably worth the hassle.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

I did miss all the cones! There are some laid on their side in those pictures to show the direction to turn. That's how the local club sets up their course so they don't have to use as many cones to get the point across.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Okay so here is my number crunching on some of the potential options. Prices vary vendor to vendor, but most of the parts I priced out through texas speed & performance's website. I haven't talked to a machine shop just yet, so I'm estimating cost using an article I came across.



The shortcut refresh would be cleaning the best I can and reassembling everything as is out of my garage. I have a couple gallons of "Evapo Rust" I could try out on the crank rods and block. The stuff actually works pretty well at disolving rust, but of course won't help if there's pitting and doesn't do a thing for the bearings. I could replace just the questionable bearings and/or polish the crank to make this a more desireable option. Some deal killers here would be if the rust in that one bore doesn't come off or leaves damage and if the journals don't clean up. Several mentioned this path and it might work out - just depends. I think no matter what I do, I will at least try to start down this path.

Next option is to replace all the bearings and rings, polish the crank, and do some machine work as well to refresh the block. To put it in perspective, I paid about $1,600 for the long block and chances are I could find another used (potentially low mileage) shortblock for less than this, so I don't see this is a very desireable option.

Next option is to rebuild as above but with forged pistons and rods. Now we're getting into a more robust package, but damn that's a lot of money. I could go cheaper with Eagle rods and Mahl pistons, but haven't heard a lot of good on the Eagles the savings would only be about $100. Mahls may still be on the table to save on the pistons. This gives me a bump in compression probably worth a few hp and the peace of mind of a stout rotating assembly.

Then there's the stroker option using forged stuff. That option has it's advantages - certainly power output and a robust assembly, but at a high cost both for the engine and the potential damage that power will do to my drivetrain (not to mention the cost of shredded tires, speeding tickets, and divorce attorney fees). I do like the idea of a 408 with VVT.

These all assume I use the block I have and the heads I have. I also need to look into the prebuilt shortblock and used shortblock options.

My wife is pretty much ready to divorce me over this. If I can't get it to clean up it's not going to be pretty.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

I think if the replacement short block isnt an option than refreshing your existing engine is the only reasonable option. I wouldnt just upgrade the pistons and rods anyways. Those engines have a nodular cast iron crank in them, which are strong, but theres a reason they sell 4340 forged cranks. One more thing to add to the rebuild column, balancing. If your changing the bob weight then balancing is a must for dependability. Sounds to me like its time to get to cleaning. You could knock it out in an evening. I am prolly gonna catch **** for this but here goes, since you are going to remain at the current power level, I would just use factory bolts back in it. Head bolts are around $50, crank bolt= $15, factory MLS 6.0 head gaskets are $65. That saves you $125 right there. Also reuse your t/c gasket. You really dont need an oil pan gasket unless yours is torn or damaged, $35 more saved. $160 in savings right there putting the total on the refresh to $271. This should at least let you stick your head out of the dog house. Imagine what my wife said when I told her I just dropped $3600 on a new engine, then had to tell her the "other stuff" was an additional $2000. Your wife ought to hug you everyday just for her not being married to me, lol!!!

futureuser

iTrader: (1)

I think you'll clean up well enough to buy yourself a few years to hide the money to build the stroker. Polish it, change any damaged bearings, check your clearances, and you'll have years to squirl away the dough to build a stroker. It's time to get the Nova running with the LS and start enjoying it. Don't let this turn into more than what it needs to be and delay further.

hookemdevils22

iTrader: (12)

Here's what I've been doing in preparation for my fiancee's mustang drivetrain build (and that turbo 408 build for the Nova down the road).

1) Find some cheap rebuildable engines/transmissions on CL and take them to the machine shop for hot tanking/magnafluxing/light machine work.
2) Help the owner with advice on a 6.0 swap in his silverado
3) Help the owner sell some LS stuff he thought would work on his swap but found out wouldn't
4) Help the owner with the infamous sewing machine noise after his cam swap
5) Work out a cash rate for whatever work you have done

That's gotten me a pretty good discount at my shop of choice. As an aside, you really need to call your local shop and let them know what you've got and want to spend. Honing's pretty easy (thank you YouTube), and the shop can usually order bearings/gaskets/hardware at a discount (again, if you pay cash).

futureuser

iTrader: (1)

I know what it's like to be on a budget. If the the difference is cleaning up the motor and getting it running soon, or putting it off several months/years for a stroker rebuild, do it now. Keep in mind your initial scope of the build. A block can be had for peanuts to build your stroker, while you enjoy what you already have.

1961ba427

iTrader: (26)

this ^^ X2 ^^

If nothing else....throw in a $250-$350 used 5.3 in there to keep it moving until you do something else. I have bought a 4.8L for $300 that is very low miles and runs perfectly (although the oil pressure measures out very low) and a running 5.3L with what sounds like a wrist pin tap for $125 complete with harness. Neither are anything I'd want to use for long, but they are worth throwing in to keep something from sitting up. Either of them have the potential to last several thousand miles.

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

Good advice and definitely the way I'm leaning; I just need to do enough to feel comfortable that this engine isn't going to spin a bearing or throw valvetrain around because a spec of rust went through somewhere.

I spent a bit of time inspecting the rods more carefullly. I think the bearings should be replaced. I may as well replace all of them - they're not that expensive for peace of mind. I haven't got the crank out yet - I can't get a socket wrench between the rear cover and engine stand, so I need to get it on the hoist. The rust that was on the thrust surfaces of the rods doesn't seem to have come from the rods, but rather is bits of rust transfered likely from the crank. They wipe right off, so I think the rods themselves are fine.

Based on how little time I have to work on this, I think I'll take the block and crank to a machine shop to get cleaned and polished as required. They can advise me on whether or not the bores need any work (I am hoping not) and I can take it from there.

FatfreeGTO

Not sure on how interchangeable the internals are, but what if you found someone with a new Vette or Camaro that was going to put in a stroker kit. You could potentially buy their rotating assembly pretty cheap..

-TheBandit-

iTrader: (1)

The newer Corvette & Camaro 6.2 liter engines (LS3, L99) have a 4.060in bore where the 6.0 liter engines (LY6, L96, LQ4, LQ9, LS2) have a 4.000in bore, so the pistons wouldn't fit, but I'm sure there are plenty of used 6.0 parts I could pick up. Not a bad idea, but I hope to avoid that.

Easter update:

I spent most of the weekend with family, but got a little done on Friday. At first I was going to get the engine on the hoist so I could pull the rear cover, but just prior to getting it in the air I decided I may as well do a test fit to see if my frame notches were going to work out. So in she went.







Things seem to be working out pretty well, but not perfect. One thing I noticed while under the car was that the transmission is shifted at the rear toward the driver's side by about 1.5-2 inches from the center of the crossmember. I tried lifting and shifting it back toward center, but it wont stay there - I am fighting the engine mounting to move it. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the crossmember, engine mounts or what. This is the same TH400 crossmember that I used before with the smallblock. I did verify the tranny is completely mated with the engine and nothing is interfering on the passenger side to keep it from shifting toward center. I'm not sure what's going on - any clues? It may have been this way on previous test fits - I never checked the tranny mount.

The frame notches and accessory clearance turned out pretty good. Here is the alternator. I still don't have an alternator bracket and I used my old locating spacers to make the flywheel holder, so had to employ it to get the front spacing right for this mockup. It has just the right amount of clearance radially. I could have gotten away with less clearance in the back though.







Here is the AC mounting bracket trimmed and mounted. I took a little bit off the bottom and there's about 3/8" clearance underneath.





The problem I did run into is the lower rear mounting bolt. It is in line with the lower control arm perch. In the current position, unless I cut into that perch, I can't use the lower rear mounting tab on the compressor. If I was using neutral instead of 1/2" setback adapters, this would probably clear.



So in the pictures above and below, the compressor isn't completely mounted; it's tilted nose up a bit because I haven't cut off the rear mounting tab yet.







I think the clearance to the left and rear of the compressor is perfect, but without the bottom mounting tab I could have gotten away with less notching toward the bottom and kept more material at the inside corner of my notch. Maybe if I had three or four frames and a whole bunch of time, I could get it perfect, but for a one-shot thing, I think I did okay.

Overall I am satisfied. I do wonder if I couldn't notch out the LCA perch to get enough room for that mounting tab though. I'm not sure if it's worth it to get full four point mounting of the compressor. The front two and rear upper is probably enough.

hookemdevils22

iTrader: (12)

check subframe position relative to the body. there's dowel holes to line it up 'properly'. However, there's still a very real possibility of it being fundamental to how the car was built. I have direct experience with front suspension problems arising from a poorly built (from the factory) subframe on a '68 Camaro.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Look for a guy named Sako on here he had the same problem but a little worse. I think he changed out the engine stands and it fixed it. He has a green 69 Camaro on here in the conversions section. Awesome job on the frame notches!!! The low mount accessories look great!

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Try taking the Compressor and Alternator off. Measure the distance from crank to the frame rails, see if you can use like the A-arm support or the common frame point on both sides.. see if it is offset any. Then measure the rear of the trans output shaft to the Frame rails again. And see if they center up or are both offset ?

I checked my Engine / Trans with them mounted to the Subframe, but not bolted to the Body. .so that made it a bit easier.

Check all of the measurement to see if all is sq on the subframe..?

BC