Steve68's Camaro.
04-15-2011, 11:55 AM
#282
So you moved the engine forward to accommodate for the A/C compressor correct? I know you dont want to run the compressor up top but with all of the other issues with the engine forward it seems you either need to run it up top or find a smaller compressor. It seems you are a solid 3 inches forward from just the standard location. Your doing all of the suspension upgrades a man could ask for but are moving the center of gravity farther from the middle of the car? I think you need to cut the firewall out set the engine back about 5 inches forget about the A/C and lets turn this car into a canyon carver.
Consider the more typical LSx swap decision to move the engine by 1". Using the same assumptions as above, the CG would move by 0.2" and the fr/rr bais would change by about 0.2% or the equivalent of taking ~6.5lb from the rear tires and moving it up front.
As a sidebar, moving a ~15lb compressor ~30inches down lowers the CG of a 3500lb vehicle about 1/8". Negligeable I'd say considering what you can get from a right height change.
04-15-2011, 12:27 PM
#283
Congrats on the wedding!!! I am sure it will be great.
So you moved the engine forward to accommodate for the A/C compressor correct? I know you dont want to run the compressor up top but with all of the other issues with the engine forward it seems you either need to run it up top or find a smaller compressor. It seems you are a solid 3 inches forward from just the standard location. Your doing all of the suspension upgrades a man could ask for but are moving the center of gravity farther from the middle of the car? I think you need to cut the firewall out set the engine back about 5 inches forget about the A/C and lets turn this car into a canyon carver.
So you moved the engine forward to accommodate for the A/C compressor correct? I know you dont want to run the compressor up top but with all of the other issues with the engine forward it seems you either need to run it up top or find a smaller compressor. It seems you are a solid 3 inches forward from just the standard location. Your doing all of the suspension upgrades a man could ask for but are moving the center of gravity farther from the middle of the car? I think you need to cut the firewall out set the engine back about 5 inches forget about the A/C and lets turn this car into a canyon carver.
Thanks,
The ATS plates are for max setback, I dont want to get crazy and cut the fire wall,
Bandit, the plates are upside down for a reason, I was seeing if they will fit the stands, which won't work,
another thing I found out my compressor is at Prodigy, I will pick it up on Monday, swap the plates around and set the engine in,
if it dosent work, I'll do the upper mount or push the engine back and make custom stands,
04-15-2011, 12:28 PM
#284
On a car that weighs say 3500lbs, assuming the drivetrain (engine+tranny+accessories) weighs 700lb, moving the engine 3" will move the CG about 0.6". Camaros have a 108" wheelbase, so this amounts to changing the fr/rr bias by about 0.5% or the equivalent of taking ~19.5lb from the rear tires and moving it to the front, on par with what you'd get from relocating your battery to/from the trunk.
Consider the more typical LSx swap decision to move the engine by 1". Using the same assumptions as above, the CG would move by 0.2" and the fr/rr bais would change by about 0.2% or the equivalent of taking ~6.5lb from the rear tires and moving it up front.
As a sidebar, moving a ~15lb compressor ~30inches down lowers the CG of a 3500lb vehicle about 1/8". Negligeable I'd say considering what you can get from a right height change.
Consider the more typical LSx swap decision to move the engine by 1". Using the same assumptions as above, the CG would move by 0.2" and the fr/rr bais would change by about 0.2% or the equivalent of taking ~6.5lb from the rear tires and moving it up front.
As a sidebar, moving a ~15lb compressor ~30inches down lowers the CG of a 3500lb vehicle about 1/8". Negligeable I'd say considering what you can get from a right height change.
Good info on the weight and CG, setback,
04-15-2011, 10:07 PM
#285
On a car that weighs say 3500lbs, assuming the drivetrain (engine+tranny+accessories) weighs 700lb, moving the engine 3" will move the CG about 0.6". Camaros have a 108" wheelbase, so this amounts to changing the fr/rr bias by about 0.5% or the equivalent of taking ~19.5lb from the rear tires and moving it to the front, on par with what you'd get from relocating your battery to/from the trunk.
Consider the more typical LSx swap decision to move the engine by 1". Using the same assumptions as above, the CG would move by 0.2" and the fr/rr bais would change by about 0.2% or the equivalent of taking ~6.5lb from the rear tires and moving it up front.
As a sidebar, moving a ~15lb compressor ~30inches down lowers the CG of a 3500lb vehicle about 1/8". Negligeable I'd say considering what you can get from a right height change.
Consider the more typical LSx swap decision to move the engine by 1". Using the same assumptions as above, the CG would move by 0.2" and the fr/rr bais would change by about 0.2% or the equivalent of taking ~6.5lb from the rear tires and moving it up front.
As a sidebar, moving a ~15lb compressor ~30inches down lowers the CG of a 3500lb vehicle about 1/8". Negligeable I'd say considering what you can get from a right height change.
04-16-2011, 07:42 AM
#286
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I am currently stationed in Korea (Army) until June; and first off, I would like to say I have just spent the better part of my Saturday going through all of your build threads and and it is driving me absolutely crazy being so far from my 68!!! My fiance bought it for me as a wedding present and I haven't even gotten to see it in person yet! But you all motivate me to continue my parts quest and have everything waiting when I get home in May! Maybe I can try to play catchup!! Got the LQ9/L92 head and LS3 intake already and a guy finishing off the wiring harness for me now! Debating starting a build thread just to show all the parts I've lined up thus far.
Steve68-any chance you contacted Frank at Prodigy? On his site it lists an option for the Gen IV VA with LS accessories for no additional cost. He may be able to help you out and still keep the compressor low like you want. He has been there to answer a lot of my questions about part combos. Just a thought! Can't wait to see everyones cars up and running
Adam
Steve68-any chance you contacted Frank at Prodigy? On his site it lists an option for the Gen IV VA with LS accessories for no additional cost. He may be able to help you out and still keep the compressor low like you want. He has been there to answer a lot of my questions about part combos. Just a thought! Can't wait to see everyones cars up and running
Adam
04-18-2011, 05:12 AM
#288
Thanks!
and thanks for you service in the forces!!!!
I have talked to him, and I'm sure thats the brackets I have, my problem is I'm using all the ATS parts which is causing my problem in the fitment of the plates and the the compressor!, but I'm picking it up later today, then we'll see how much interfearance there is,
What a weekend!!!! beautiful weather, everything went great, lots of fun!!!
and thanks for you service in the forces!!!!
I have talked to him, and I'm sure thats the brackets I have, my problem is I'm using all the ATS parts which is causing my problem in the fitment of the plates and the the compressor!, but I'm picking it up later today, then we'll see how much interfearance there is,
What a weekend!!!! beautiful weather, everything went great, lots of fun!!!
04-18-2011, 02:14 PM
#289
The point is to improve the handling not take away from it for an accessory item. On an already nose heavy car why would you want to increase any weight towards the front if it can easily be remedied by a bracket. Steve has some of the best suspension components available for a reason. He has went to great extremes to make it all work more so than any of us. Which ever way you go Steve I am sure it will look and ride just fine. I had a guy on here that busted my groove when I was spacing my accessories out. He was sort of short with me and how dare he put that in my thread. Well after looking at it several times my pride subsided and realized this guy made perfect sense. End result I did what he suggested and couldnt be happier. Of course I had to eat crow for speaking my mind but its all good.
I haven't read your specific example on the accessory spacing, but if your accessories weigh 200lbs and you move them out 3/4", the weight bias only changes by 0.04% (assuming 3500lb car 108" wb). I would challenge a professional driver to notice that small of a difference! Of course there are very good reasons not to space your accessories: reasons like # of sealing surfaces and clearance in front of the engine. But the point is that some changes we make are not necessarily in the right direction for a given performance goal, but do help us in other ways (like cost, convenience, appearance, etc). If the magnitude of the negative impact is small and the magnitude of the positive impact is large, we may choose to make the change. It's not reasonable to expect a no compromise situation. I don't think Steve is building a race car, otherwise he probably wouldn't have AC at all.
There's no question that putting the compressor in a low mount position is a challenge on these vehicles and I haven't seen evidence that it can be done without some compromises. Whether or not those compromises are acceptable to a given person is up to them.
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 04-18-2011 at 06:09 PM.
04-18-2011, 02:27 PM
#290
The ATS plates are for max setback, I dont want to get crazy and cut the fire wall,
Bandit, the plates are upside down for a reason, I was seeing if they will fit the stands, which won't work,
another thing I found out my compressor is at Prodigy, I will pick it up on Monday, swap the plates around and set the engine in,
if it dosent work, I'll do the upper mount or push the engine back and make custom stands,
Bandit, the plates are upside down for a reason, I was seeing if they will fit the stands, which won't work,
another thing I found out my compressor is at Prodigy, I will pick it up on Monday, swap the plates around and set the engine in,
if it dosent work, I'll do the upper mount or push the engine back and make custom stands,
Last edited by -TheBandit-; 04-18-2011 at 02:44 PM.
04-18-2011, 08:09 PM
#291
Steve congratulations on the marriage!!! Glad it turned out nice for you.
One good thing about moving the engine forward is you wont have to cut the floor for shifter location or buy an expensive offset shifter!
Bandit you take what I say way too serious! Calm down with the numbers I was merely kidding about cutting up the firewall. And moving the engine forward did cause a lot of interference everywhere else. Not the easiest of solutions.
Steve are you dead set on using the ATS plates. I can measure my location for you if you are interested. My plates are adjustable and allow for 1" setback, standard, and 1" forward locations. Merely a suggestion that I will be happy to help with. Either way I am sure you will figure it out.
One good thing about moving the engine forward is you wont have to cut the floor for shifter location or buy an expensive offset shifter!
Bandit you take what I say way too serious! Calm down with the numbers I was merely kidding about cutting up the firewall. And moving the engine forward did cause a lot of interference everywhere else. Not the easiest of solutions.
Steve are you dead set on using the ATS plates. I can measure my location for you if you are interested. My plates are adjustable and allow for 1" setback, standard, and 1" forward locations. Merely a suggestion that I will be happy to help with. Either way I am sure you will figure it out.
04-19-2011, 05:35 AM
#292
Steve congratulations on the marriage!!! Glad it turned out nice for you.
One good thing about moving the engine forward is you wont have to cut the floor for shifter location or buy an expensive offset shifter!
Bandit you take what I say way too serious! Calm down with the numbers I was merely kidding about cutting up the firewall. And moving the engine forward did cause a lot of interference everywhere else. Not the easiest of solutions.
Steve are you dead set on using the ATS plates. I can measure my location for you if you are interested. My plates are adjustable and allow for 1" setback, standard, and 1" forward locations. Merely a suggestion that I will be happy to help with. Either way I am sure you will figure it out.
One good thing about moving the engine forward is you wont have to cut the floor for shifter location or buy an expensive offset shifter!
Bandit you take what I say way too serious! Calm down with the numbers I was merely kidding about cutting up the firewall. And moving the engine forward did cause a lot of interference everywhere else. Not the easiest of solutions.
Steve are you dead set on using the ATS plates. I can measure my location for you if you are interested. My plates are adjustable and allow for 1" setback, standard, and 1" forward locations. Merely a suggestion that I will be happy to help with. Either way I am sure you will figure it out.
more to come!!
Thanks for the comments on the wedding!!! it was great, everything turned out perfect, weather, food, the party,
04-23-2011, 08:26 AM
#296
I'm going to or was about to buy a aftermarket subframe yesterday, but my ATS headers wont fit, damn,
so either I could by different headers or buy the different mount for the compressor, the sub uses C5/6 front suspension componets, and I could go to a 305/315 on a 10" rim, so I still might buy one, what to do,
pics later,
so either I could by different headers or buy the different mount for the compressor, the sub uses C5/6 front suspension componets, and I could go to a 305/315 on a 10" rim, so I still might buy one, what to do,
pics later,