Brady

iTrader: (3)

Let's not complicate it with a bunch of rules, let's just say stock suspended f-body's! A drive is okay with me, I unloaded out of the trailer after the thunder shootout and went for a 50 mile drive, never even opened the hood..

I'll be there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

mikey

iTrader: (6)

Time to start my lobby for the W tires. 12.5" is OK with me...haha.

Mikey

FSTR-THANU

iTrader: (9)

This event WILL GO DOWN! I need about a week or two to sort through all the details and come up with the final draft on the rules and track location. All of your input is being taken into consideration and even though everybody will not always be happy I think the majority of you will.

Tom

jmX

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KTamez:
<strong>Also 50 miles is WAY too much. That'd be over an hour of drivetime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

25 miles TOPS. Preferably 20. 5 gallon fuel cells aren't exactly gas station friendly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" /> Even then I question if I could go 25 miles on a tank..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well then you don't exactly have a street car then do you? Fuel cell? Come on. I put a fuel cell in a race car, not a street car.

NEWBIRD

What does the amount of fuel your car hold have to do with it being a street car?There is a gas station on every corner where I live a 2 gallon cell would get me anywhere.JMX

jmX

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by NEWBIRD:
<strong>What does the amount of fuel your car hold have to do with it being a street car?There is a gas station on every corner where I live a 2 gallon cell would get me anywhere.JMX</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A street car doesnt mean literally "it can drive on the street". You can drive anything on the street. You could probably get a 747 to drive around town for a bit but that doesnt make it a street car.

Streetcar is a fuzzy definition. Some say it has to be 100% street legal. Some say it has to have creature comforts. I say it has to be able to take me across the country tomorrow, get good gas milage, as it sits in my garage, as I daily drive it. No wheel/tire swap. No computer tweaks. No special high octane gas. If you've ever driven between austin and el paso, you certainly would know a 5 gallon cell wouldn't be sufficient. My definition of street car also means after I drive across the country, I should be able to pull up to a girls house for a date and have her not have to complain about a cage, not have to smell like gasoline when she gets out, and should be able to have a conversation with me inside the vehicle without the exhaust sound being too loud. AC/Carpet/Seats/Stereo are all of course needed. THAT is what I call a street car. If a car gives up any of the above, I'm not interested.

Your definition of street car has more compromises I guess. That's fine.

KTamez

Well since this was sorta directed at me, I'll note that through the entire interior of my car the hints of being a "Racecar" are pretty minimal given its purpose. How many cars being talked about have 4 seats? Stock Center Console? Full Carpeting? No battery/Fuel pump/Cell in the trunk? How much of a Street car is anything that to be NHRA legal requires a Parachute and needs a set of wheelie bars??? <img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" />

I guess your girlfriends are just too prissy. Ever since I've known my wife she's loved cruising in my old 8-71 Blown 355 MalibuSS w/ Axle dumps (Between the overdriven blower and gear drive sounded like a jet going down the road <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> Conversation? yeah right! LOL). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Like you said its all a relative term to your point of view. I've never said here my car was a "Street Car". But for all intents and purposes for any Racing organization it is "Street Legal." Mufflers, DOT Tires, Lights, Signals, Horn, >1 seat, Plates, and Insurance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Don't worry it will get driven to local Cruise nights and Car shows, so don't get your undies bunched up too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Take care!

Kurtis "Slow LT1 Guy" Tamez

2001-WS6

I think the important thing to remember is this is another event to add to the list of killer big trips in the season.

So the work Tom is doing to tailor the rules is cool. It gets the big dogs and the serious street cars to a track to play and helps get a little more cross racing action than we'd normally see too.

One twist to the 25 mile hop could be pick a party store to hit and all contestants must make it back with their choice of 6/12/24 pack to contribute to the after race party. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Naturally the 6/12/24 pack designation would be NA/1 PA/ 2 PA penatly based. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Rick

QUASAR

iTrader: (6)

Jeeebus!

If you cant make the short drive, than YOU DONT HAVE A STREET CAR, YOU HAVE A RACE CAR. If you built your car with one purpose in mind, to race, than you should not be competing in this. This should be for cars that get occasionaly get taken out on the road. This race is for cars that get enjoyed at places other than the racetrack.

Even if you dont have plates or insurance, if you would feel totally comfortable taking your 800hp f body to the party store and then a stop at the mall and then to pick up bobby and suzy from school without haveing a major meltdown, your car can be considered a street car.

The drive will help separate that. If the people at ARE think their minitub 2speed camaro would make a short drive, and be tolerable on the road, then by all means they should be in the event too because their car has enough "function" to be a street car.

Guido

Please please allow other gens. Ive been an avid supporter of the heads up movement and Id hate to get cut out of something like this because I built a thirdgen instead of a 4th gen. Hell at this point the only thing seperating me and madman really is that he has a 4th gen and I have a 3rd gen.

I use a dart block and speed pro EFI. big turbo, custome headers. I could drive it on the street if I chose but I havent plated it this year.

PLEASE consider other gens. Id like to support the heads up racing movement for f-bodys but can only do it if you let the rest of us in.

I would have been at the Thunder Shootout but didnt get the car finished in time.

Thanks.

SLED28

iTrader: (7)

I must admit I never call my car a streetcar anymore, I know its a race car. No problem for me and others. Our cars could make the 25mile trip with extra fuel tanks probably? Could lean it out I guess...
But I could also get a 7sec Super Street car to run 25miles, is that street enough!

If the car fits the Rules then let it race!
Biggest thing is to get the weights down..

Also:

Scrap the cruise! I'm not taking a chance of getting run into by other cars with no insurance or plates!! I'm sure the drive would go past other streets, stops, lights, etc.. You never know...

JimmyKash

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>

Personally I would prefer just a fourth gen event for simplicity with maybe a few special guests in other gens.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">why? what makes it simple? im curious to here your answer to this one...i'm not one to try and start **** but this erks me considering i have a thirdgen that is a cage away from really competing in this.

EDIT:

i also know of another thirdgen that meets ALL of your requirements and has:

STOCK HEAVY HOOD
fiberglass spoiler to replace the cracked painted stock one
12.5" ET Streets, no minitubs
stock style suspension
no wheelie bars
stock gas tank (sumped though, so i guess you could say modify)
full exhaust (to the bumper)
only "race" mod it has is a chute cuz he NEEDS it

first pass on a new combo went 9.39@149 blowing nothing but black smoke in 2nd/3rd and it was on a 1.5 60'.

oops...thought of a few more:
IROC-Z
305", ya you read that right
totally stock appearing
stock hood
shitty long tube runner setup
T76 turbo
stock style suspension
9.90s

IROC-Z
406"
totally stock appearing (minus the chute)
wheelie bars (sorry i know but for good reason)
stock style suspension
R-trim vortech
nitrous plate kit
10" W tire
8.80s

90trans-am
383"
stock block
Another shitty long tube runner setup, stock by the way
ported base
10" tires
s-trim, small boost
nitrous 2 kits
stock style suspension
10.60s on boost, 9.50s on 2 kits

there are more....

Sounds like good competitors to me, but they are thirdgens <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: JimmyKash ]</small>

DRAGON1

In the spirit of the forum you might want to consider allowing the 4th/5th gen vettes in here too or at least the c5's -- your sponsership opportunities would grow and the amount of tuner cars would be greater (more competition in the low 9's to mid 8's) and I'm sure there would be a ton of magazine press for an event like that.
The intention and spirit of what you are trying to organize is great. Whle true "street-driven" cars going really fast is an amazing feat, I think because of safety regulations getting the fastest cars there is going to have to be a comprimise. I like the rules so far and I think we could bring a couple of cars to the event (more if you want to let the c5's play).

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: DRAGON1 ]</small>

CHRISPY

Bah why not just have a race?

All this added bullshit drives up the time and cost factor.

If you are talking TRUE street legal you would need cats, emissions testing and all that **** for most states. (Some of the Stang classes have this) Emissions testing after every pass!

Nobody is pretending these cars are street cars. Screw that, set a date, weight restrictions, engine combo restrictions, and race the cars <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

This cruise stuff is not only a waste of time and money it is BORING!

After towing/driving the car 20 plus hours to get to an event I would MUCH rather spend my morning doing time trials and dialing the car in than driving around a 25-50 mile cruise.

Then have the races in the afternoon and beers at night back at the hotel. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

MADMAN

iTrader: (4)

I have a Firebird dash in the car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But street appearing is a better term for this race.

KTamez

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DIAMOND:
<strong>How about we open it up to all F-bodies and just call it "STREET APPEARING"? I think Tom is trying to keep out all out drag cars. Madman your car is pretty darn close to an all out drag car. Your dash isn't even the stock dash, is it?? I am all for letting your car and the Agostino car into this event, just let's open it up to all F-bodies and call it "street appearing".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can personally agree with all of your points Chris. The cruise will weed out most extremely radical cars, stock style suspension rule weeding out the majority of the RACE cars w/ Ladder Bars and 4-Links. Plates/Insurance shouldn't be an issue. "Street Appearing" being the key word as Chris said. The more rules you throw at this thing, the less cars you'll see there.

As far as keeping it LS1 only??? I find that pretty <img border="0" alt="[gay]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_rainbow.gif" /> . How many cars would you actually expect to show up?? Somewhere between 0-3 would be my guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Try to be a lil more open minded guys.

Also of note is the L98 block. Not many guys build a wild motor using that OEM L98/TPI Block <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ), and so many go the Dart/World/Bowtie/etc route, since for them its basically plug-n-play.

My personal car would need several minor changes (Wheelie Bar length, funcional Ignition Key jump right out at me). I probably would do it, however I'll have to bow out at this point and keep my mouth shut though. It would be impossible for me to test, let alone get my license before April, as none of the NW tracks open until April. Thats an aweful long drive for me to do some shakedown and tuning passes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />

Good luck guys, looks like a truely awesome race.

C5R_SS

Street Appearing, Yea Baby, that lets us in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: C5R_SS ]</small>

Nick D'Agostino

Firstly, make it stock suspended F-bodys. If we get crazy and make the class just for 4th gens there will be 3 or 4 guys spliting the cost of the track that day. Who would come out unless they had a 9.doh car or faster? The bar has already been set into the 8's.

Limit these cars to having either a LT1, LS1, L89, or SBC. No super-whip Donovan Big Block stuff. I am all for opening it up, but lets still keep some rules about this.

As far as the 25 mile drive goes, I am a little questionable on this one myself. I have no intention to insure or register my car next year as it will not be on the street as a daily or even weekend driver. With that in mind, I personally am not willing to drive my car on the street and take the risk of getting in a wreck. I wonder if there is a possibility of trailering the cars to Michigan Speedway and taking laps there. Granted it is a bit extreme, but I think this driving 25 miles is extreme from the get go.

I also think there should be classes set-up much like the Thunder event, so everyone else has the option to come out and race. I'm sure that there are a lot of people that would like to see the big race go down, but if they can also run their own cars you will get a much larger turn-out.

I think thats it for now, but my main point is to make sure that we open it up for all years of the F-Body as long as they are stock suspended and are using a GM Small Block that we allow.

Lets Get It On <img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" />

CHRISPY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JimmyKash:
[QBwhy? what makes it simple? im curious to here your answer to this one...i'm not one to try and start **** but this erks me considering i have a thirdgen that is a cage away from really competing in this.
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey its no big deal to me if you have third gens show up. I am just thinking about simplicity for tech staff etc and keeping the numbers reasonable. If you opened it to all gens without tire, raceweight and suspension restrictions you would have 100's of carbed big block cars at the track. (Not that I terribly mind that or anything)

I guess the stock suspension rule for all Generations, 3200 curbweight, minitubs allowed and 10.5 tire rule would keep things pretty sensible.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the cruise. Especially for non licensed, insured cars. Make it a fun raceday and friendly gathering of F-bods across all generations. Otherwise you are going to force people to have to stay home. (You definitely want Madman, Sled and Wade at an event like this. I am sure there are others in the same boat as these guys as well. Hell I only have a low 11 second car (hopefully high 10's in the spring <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" /> ) and I dont even want to do a cruise. I just want to race.
Cheers,
Chris

Guido

I would rather race too. Ive been at the races and in the mornings it CAN be hectic trying to make sure that you have everything in order on the car. Getting it ready for a 25-30 mile cruise really puts a stretch on your nerves. LOL

With all this talk of street legal, does anyone ever follow the NMCA series? PRO series? Those are toted as "Street Legal Racing's fastest Cars". Their intent is a car that is still a doorslammer, has exterior features indicitave of a street car such as lights, steel body panels, etc. These days people are really pushing what steal bpdied cars do but that is their interpretation of street legal is and a lot of people subscribe to that too. They have full cages, two seats, some form of carpet, no consoles but fiberglass dash boards.

Just some more food for thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />