Fireball Outlaw Drag Radial Rebuild Thread
03-20-2011, 06:57 PM
#1141
9 Second Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know how you feel. We had a problem with the FAST XFI and XIM setup with LS truck coils that have a 5ms dwell time built in firing before they are suppose to. It added timing in the motor under boost and fried 3 pistons. We at least figured out the problem so I hope we have it fixed when we get the motor back from Kurt. Sorry to hear about your mishap. It sucks when it happens the first time out.
03-20-2011, 06:57 PM
#1142
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Posts: 8,484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a baseline tune from phil....I simply saved as a new file name for my car. I verify a few settings, but in that process, it changed the load vs rpm table. the original file had adjacent rows of 10.x psi, 14.x psi, 17.x psi and 20.x psi. keep in mind, I NEVER opened that table, just verified that it was still set for my 4bar map by looking at the fuel table. Only parameters I changed from the original file were motor size, crank pickup count, injector size and added a bit of fuel across the board for safety.
Fast forward to saturday. I set the AMS to be a soft boost setting of 10 psi co2 (about 14 psi actual boost). car hiccups bad about 500 ft out. PUll back to the pits, look at the tune up and the load axis had changed the 17.x psi row to 14.x psi....that meant I had two adjacent rows of 14psi. this happened to be the exact same as the boost as I was running. BS3 hiccuped and for whatever reason, it decided to use a value from high vaccum when it encountered that situation. (less fuel more spark). I looked back at the original tune I got from phil and that anomoly was not in that file...BS3 simply changed it for no apparent reason. Next time up in the lines it develops a bad knock during the burnout.. #2 piston siezed in the bore due to the heat and the rod ripped the bottom of the piston out.
we didn't pull it 100% apart but a quick survey shows:
Crank looks ok
block is damaged but fixable
#2 sleeve needs replaced
cam looks damaged
a few lifters looks damaged
at least one rod is damaged
BS3 had no reason to change that value and I've been unable to replicate this glitch
When the MAP reads 14psi, the BS3 should NEVER use a vacuum row for fueling and spark...I don't care if theres 5 rows that read 14psi
Fast forward to saturday. I set the AMS to be a soft boost setting of 10 psi co2 (about 14 psi actual boost). car hiccups bad about 500 ft out. PUll back to the pits, look at the tune up and the load axis had changed the 17.x psi row to 14.x psi....that meant I had two adjacent rows of 14psi. this happened to be the exact same as the boost as I was running. BS3 hiccuped and for whatever reason, it decided to use a value from high vaccum when it encountered that situation. (less fuel more spark). I looked back at the original tune I got from phil and that anomoly was not in that file...BS3 simply changed it for no apparent reason. Next time up in the lines it develops a bad knock during the burnout.. #2 piston siezed in the bore due to the heat and the rod ripped the bottom of the piston out.
we didn't pull it 100% apart but a quick survey shows:
Crank looks ok
block is damaged but fixable
#2 sleeve needs replaced
cam looks damaged
a few lifters looks damaged
at least one rod is damaged
BS3 had no reason to change that value and I've been unable to replicate this glitch
When the MAP reads 14psi, the BS3 should NEVER use a vacuum row for fueling and spark...I don't care if theres 5 rows that read 14psi
Last edited by Fireball; 03-20-2011 at 07:03 PM.
03-20-2011, 07:14 PM
#1145
Everyone associated with Brians car is very disappointed. This **** shouldn't have happened. I'm very fustrated and its not even my car. 14# of boost may not sound like alot but its more than enough to make 1100hp to the tires...We're all very disappointed to say the least and now knowing it was something in the big stuff box it makes it even worse.
03-20-2011, 07:26 PM
#1146
9 Second Club
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lancaster,Pa.
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's scarey for all of us that run Bigstuff. The worse part is you haven't been able to replicate the issue...... I'm completely bummed about it and it's not my car!
03-20-2011, 09:45 PM
#1152
8 Second Club
iTrader: (40)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Raleigh,North Carolina
Posts: 1,861
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will have better luck pissing on an electric fence.
This is how it will go.......
"Never heard of anything like that"
"You can send the box in to me, I will look at it"
Weeks will pass by, the box will come back, no problems found.....
This is how it will go.......
"Never heard of anything like that"
"You can send the box in to me, I will look at it"
Weeks will pass by, the box will come back, no problems found.....
03-21-2011, 05:16 AM
#1155
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Posts: 8,484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think I'm going to put some masking tape over where it says "big stuff 3" on the box and write "biggest piece of **** 3" 
03-21-2011, 06:47 AM
#1157
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Posts: 8,484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've still gotta put enough money together to fix this catastophe...As of right now...its costing me as much per pass than it would to be racing top fuel 
contrary to popular belief, I don't have a big money tree out back so changing ECUs isn't in the cards. Before anyone tries to jump on the Holley bandwagon...that is a bigger piece of junk (even if the florida boys say otherwise)...they have one at the shop which still won't fire an engine on the dyno after many hours of messing with it...
contrary to popular belief, I don't have a big money tree out back so changing ECUs isn't in the cards. Before anyone tries to jump on the Holley bandwagon...that is a bigger piece of junk (even if the florida boys say otherwise)...they have one at the shop which still won't fire an engine on the dyno after many hours of messing with it...
Last edited by Fireball; 03-21-2011 at 06:52 AM.
03-21-2011, 06:53 AM
#1158
TECH Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Cecil County Raceway!!!
Posts: 8,484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You don't know how close I am to just scrapping the whole project and selling everything off
On the bright side...I now have enough time to fix the damage to my hood before I go back out again
Also have time to fix other small bugs that I found in other parts of the car
On the bright side...I now have enough time to fix the damage to my hood before I go back out again
Also have time to fix other small bugs that I found in other parts of the car
03-21-2011, 09:49 AM
#1160
This whole situation sucks... It was a serious let down to hear this happened... 
I hope noone wonders why I am done with the efi ****. I know the carb won't be the optimal performance that efi "can" be... but at least I know this won't happen.
I hope everything is repairable..... and for god's sake it doesn't happen again... at least you know to look in that table now to see if it's doing something stupid again.... and to check EVERY table in the damn file now. What a pita.
I hope noone wonders why I am done with the efi ****. I know the carb won't be the optimal performance that efi "can" be... but at least I know this won't happen.
I hope everything is repairable..... and for god's sake it doesn't happen again... at least you know to look in that table now to see if it's doing something stupid again.... and to check EVERY table in the damn file now. What a pita.