Dual Fuel on the fly(87 and e85) on stock pcm's!
02-20-2013, 08:25 PM
#1
Dual Fuel on the fly(87 and e85) on stock pcm's! Maxxmitchell and I designed this setup so we can cruise on 87 octane and as soon as you go into boost it goes to e85 ON THE FLY. No hitting switches, no having to pull over to change tunes or anything, it does it as soon as you floor it. It goes to straight e85 also after 2lbs of boost, no mixing pump and e85 above that.
This makes for the perfect setup for a street car, cheap "race" fuel, but where e85 isn't as available you can still drive on 87 octane. The 2nd set of injectors are farther up the intake runner also for added cooling. This setup runs on two stock pcm's controlled by hptuners. Great alternative to guys who want to run pump gas but don't want to chance hurting a motor with meth.
3rd gen firebird (maxx's car)
JY 5.3 7675
th400 and neal chance converter
12 bolt 3.08 gears
16 injectors(30lb and 80lb)
vic jr intake (modified for 16 injectors thanks to Blake at 417motorsports)
12 gallon fuel cell for e85
Stock tank for pump gas
We will be doing at least one more car this year, possibly a few others also.
Here is a few pics...
This makes for the perfect setup for a street car, cheap "race" fuel, but where e85 isn't as available you can still drive on 87 octane. The 2nd set of injectors are farther up the intake runner also for added cooling. This setup runs on two stock pcm's controlled by hptuners. Great alternative to guys who want to run pump gas but don't want to chance hurting a motor with meth.
3rd gen firebird (maxx's car)
JY 5.3 7675
th400 and neal chance converter
12 bolt 3.08 gears
16 injectors(30lb and 80lb)
vic jr intake (modified for 16 injectors thanks to Blake at 417motorsports)
12 gallon fuel cell for e85
Stock tank for pump gas
We will be doing at least one more car this year, possibly a few others also.
Here is a few pics...
02-20-2013, 08:35 PM
#5
I'd like to add, the cost to do something like this if say building a 1200-1400rwhp car wouldn't be THAT much more than building a single fuel system from scratch. Great thing is you could leave all the stock tank/pump/lines and just change them for aftermarket rails so wouldn't cost much. Then you have the cost of the intake modification, fuel cell, fuel rails and pcm/wiring really is the only extra cost. Being as you would need 1 set of rails anyway, would need big lines front/rear anyway, aftermarket regulator, etc. In the end the cost isn't that much more and a much better option than trying for big power on meth in my opinion.
02-20-2013, 08:40 PM
#6
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Obviously this system would also work with racegas and not just E85. We can also adjust the blending range and use either less pump gas and more E85 before you even hit boost, or in the case of expensive race gas you could blend later.
It is so nice being able to know that I can drive anywhere, get better mileage than on E85, and I always have "race" gas on tap. Now sense the price break between 87octane and E85 isn't nearly as large as it used to be it is also cheaper to operate the car.
It is so nice being able to know that I can drive anywhere, get better mileage than on E85, and I always have "race" gas on tap. Now sense the price break between 87octane and E85 isn't nearly as large as it used to be it is also cheaper to operate the car.
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02-20-2013, 08:49 PM
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Tom Nelson of NRE does this same thing with all the cars he builds. Mostly using pump gas and race fuel but same difference. Def nice being able to have options pulling up the the gas station an not having to worry if they got E85 on hand
02-20-2013, 08:58 PM
#10
16 injectors, out of boost pump gas ones are on, in boost e85 ones are on, that is the quick rundown of it without getting into too much detail.
Yes, Kurt Urban and Jim at Speed inc have done it also, along with others. They all use $$$ standalones though and switch only from pump/race, not pump/e85. We did the 2 pcm's to be a much cheaper alternative.
Yes, Kurt Urban and Jim at Speed inc have done it also, along with others. They all use $$$ standalones though and switch only from pump/race, not pump/e85. We did the 2 pcm's to be a much cheaper alternative.
02-20-2013, 09:05 PM
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Im wondering how their are switching. I understand the others. I dont use Stock PCM, so i wont be trying to copy you, but i am curious how your are switching them.
02-20-2013, 10:14 PM
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Yea Im sure those standalone system are a pretty penny. (Never really looked up the pricing). My hats off to you guys for thinking of the guys on a budget.
02-20-2013, 11:54 PM
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So, I'm guessing both PCM's are firing all the injectors all the time? The only variable is some sort of hobbs switch cycling the different pumps? So, one set of injectors is firing dry all the time? Or, is it more complicated then that? Nice work either way.
Edit: I guess this way wouldn't really allow for different timing tables and such as the tunes would have to be identical minus the fueling...
Paul
Edit: I guess this way wouldn't really allow for different timing tables and such as the tunes would have to be identical minus the fueling...
Paul
02-21-2013, 01:08 AM
#18
So, I'm guessing both PCM's are firing all the injectors all the time? The only variable is some sort of hobbs switch cycling the different pumps? So, one set of injectors is firing dry all the time? Or, is it more complicated then that? Nice work either way.
Edit: I guess this way wouldn't really allow for different timing tables and such as the tunes would have to be identical minus the fueling...
Paul
Edit: I guess this way wouldn't really allow for different timing tables and such as the tunes would have to be identical minus the fueling...
Paul
Stock pcm/injectors do all the idle and part throttle driving and also manage the full timing table. Second e85 pcm only controls the second set of injectors would be my guess.
02-21-2013, 01:11 AM
#19
16 injectors, out of boost pump gas ones are on, in boost e85 ones are on, that is the quick rundown of it without getting into too much detail.
Yes, Kurt Urban and Jim at Speed inc have done it also, along with others. They all use $$$ standalones though and switch only from pump/race, not pump/e85. We did the 2 pcm's to be a much cheaper alternative.
Yes, Kurt Urban and Jim at Speed inc have done it also, along with others. They all use $$$ standalones though and switch only from pump/race, not pump/e85. We did the 2 pcm's to be a much cheaper alternative.
