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Well Folks, the temps are finally well under control.
In the midst of all the back and forth that had gone on with the old intercooler, Ron Shearer of Shearer Fabrications reached out to me. After several discussions with him, evaluating my data, expressing my concerns to him that I still had a lingering glimmer of a doubt in my mind that my outlet temps and/or combo were indeed the cause of my issues, he assured me that my temps are absolutely normal and he was beyond confident his 1700hp cooler would keep the temps at bay. Having reached a complete and total dead end with 417 I pulled the trigger. It was on the way.
Upon receiving it I was extremely pleased with the quality of the new unit. One thing to note on the installation of the Shearer Fab cooler; it is COMPLETE. No additional $300 water manifolds to add on and additional $80 fittings required to get it plumbed. I took my -16 lines and plugged em in. Fabbed up my new cold pipe and got it fired up.
Unfortunately the next month had no open track rentals available and most everything I would be doing was street cruising. I got the car up to Ocean City hotrod weekend and cruised in the brutal heat we had the first couple days. Just glancing at the deltas between pre-cooler and post cooler temps while driving with ambient temp water I could already tell... This is already performing significantly better... But I am a hard data guy, I gotta get to the track.
(still pulling air from behind the radiator)
Fast forward a few weeks and I was finally able to make it to a local test n tune. This would be tricky due to increased heat soak on the motor and intake manifold itself from sitting in staging lane lines, as well as the fact that it was 11* hotter than when I did the 417 testing. Still gonna send it!
The following datalog comparison is running the EXACT same boost/tune up on both intercoolers. The ONLY difference between the 2 passes is the intercooler. This is the same 5 gallon ice tank, 20lbs of ice, -16 lines and EMP water pump as before. Like I said before, it was considerably hotter outside as we're getting closer to summer now and the 417 runs were done in the very early spring. 71* ambient, 1100da with the 417 unit, and 82* and 2040da with the Shearer Fab.
Enough talk. Data:
Again, this is the exact same tuneup. Dotted Line is the 417 cooler run, Solid line is the Shearer Fab unit. In Red is my pre-cooler sensor, which you see maxes out at virtually the exact same time in the run, and the Green is my post cooler temps.
The car is going through the traps more than 70* cooler in the 1/4 and 60* cooler in the 1/8th, despite running on a hotter day. The rise during the run has been more than CUT IN 1/2!!! That directly = added horsepower throughout the ENTIRE pass.
One last thing as a sidenote that I found interesting in comparison was how the temps are affected in the burnout. Just so happens both burnouts were nearly identical in length, pre-cooler temp and boost, roughly 3psi through the burnout.
As you can see during the burnout:
417: 24* rise
Shearer Fab: 6* DROP.
Take that for what it's worth.
Another thing to take note of is the car on this night was 4140 lbs, just shy of 200lbs heavier than when I had the interior removed while shooting for best ETs early in the spring. The car trapped 148mph with both coolers, despite the added weight when I ran the Shearer... She's gotta be making more power right? This was also confirmed in the datalog with fuel consumption increasing with the new cooler.
Sorry for the long winded post, but I am finally very pleased with the combo and have finally put this to bed. I cannot thank Ron enough for a truly well performing product and stand up customer service when I had questions and concerns. It has been a pleasure doing business with him!!! I also want to thank Sam at Direct Performance Solutions for his ongoing support!
Thats awesome! , can you get me the contact info for ron?
with these new results i may make the same plunge!
80* temp
we sat in the lanes for a while with ice in the tank
During the pull:
min 67*
max145*
right around 13#
2nd pass
70* temp (night)
we sat in the lanes for a while again with ice in the tank
During the pull:
min 92*
max 157*
right around 15#
the first pass i activated the pump right before the burnout
the 2nd pass i activated the pump a little late after the burnout
Crazy part about those numbers is I believe I'm running the same turbos as you are. However, I don't even have an intercooler and my temps aren't very far off from yours at that boost level.
Originally Posted by gtistile
UPDATE!!!!
Well Folks, the temps are finally well under control.
In the midst of all the back and forth that had gone on with the old intercooler, Ron Shearer of Shearer Fabrications reached out to me. After several discussions with him, evaluating my data, expressing my concerns to him that I still had a lingering glimmer of a doubt in my mind that my outlet temps and/or combo were indeed the cause of my issues, he assured me that my temps are absolutely normal and he was beyond confident his 1700hp cooler would keep the temps at bay. Having reached a complete and total dead end with 417 I pulled the trigger. It was on the way.
Upon receiving it I was extremely pleased with the quality of the new unit. One thing to note on the installation of the Shearer Fab cooler; it is COMPLETE. No additional $300 water manifolds to add on and additional $80 fittings required to get it plumbed. I took my -16 lines and plugged em in. Fabbed up my new cold pipe and got it fired up.
Unfortunately the next month had no open track rentals available and most everything I would be doing was street cruising. I got the car up to Ocean City hotrod weekend and cruised in the brutal heat we had the first couple days. Just glancing at the deltas between pre-cooler and post cooler temps while driving with ambient temp water I could already tell... This is already performing significantly better... But I am a hard data guy, I gotta get to the track.
(still pulling air from behind the radiator)
Fast forward a few weeks and I was finally able to make it to a local test n tune. This would be tricky due to increased heat soak on the motor and intake manifold itself from sitting in staging lane lines, as well as the fact that it was 11* hotter than when I did the 417 testing. Still gonna send it!
The following datalog comparison is running the EXACT same boost/tune up on both intercoolers. The ONLY difference between the 2 passes is the intercooler. This is the same 5 gallon ice tank, 20lbs of ice, -16 lines and EMP water pump as before. Like I said before, it was considerably hotter outside as we're getting closer to summer now and the 417 runs were done in the very early spring. 71* ambient, 1100da with the 417 unit, and 82* and 2040da with the Shearer Fab.
Enough talk. Data:
Again, this is the exact same tuneup. Dotted Line is the 417 cooler run, Solid line is the Shearer Fab unit. In Red is my pre-cooler sensor, which you see maxes out at virtually the exact same time in the run, and the Green is my post cooler temps.
The car is going through the traps more than 70* cooler in the 1/4 and 60* cooler in the 1/8th, despite running on a hotter day. The rise during the run has been more than CUT IN 1/2!!! That directly = added horsepower throughout the ENTIRE pass.
One last thing as a sidenote that I found interesting in comparison was how the temps are affected in the burnout. Just so happens both burnouts were nearly identical in length, pre-cooler temp and boost, roughly 3psi through the burnout.
As you can see during the burnout:
417: 24* rise
Shearer Fab: 6* DROP.
Take that for what it's worth.
Another thing to take note of is the car on this night was 4140 lbs, just shy of 200lbs heavier than when I had the interior removed while shooting for best ETs early in the spring. The car trapped 148mph with both coolers, despite the added weight when I ran the Shearer... She's gotta be making more power right? This was also confirmed in the datalog with fuel consumption increasing with the new cooler.
Sorry for the long winded post, but I am finally very pleased with the combo and have finally put this to bed. I cannot thank Ron enough for a truly well performing product and stand up customer service when I had questions and concerns. It has been a pleasure doing business with him!!! I also want to thank Sam at Direct Performance Solutions for his ongoing support!
Crazy part about those numbers is I believe I'm running the same turbos as you are. However, I don't even have an intercooler and my temps aren't very far off from yours at that boost level.
So what is not very far off? What ambient temp? Do you have a secret to compress air without heating it?
So what is not very far off? What ambient temp? Do you have a secret to compress air without heating it?
On a 85-90 degree day highest I have seen so far is 181 on 15.5lbs. On a cooler 70-75 degree day I saw 161 and made closer to 16lbs. I fully expect to max out the sensor on higher boost but on e85 I'm not concerned. No secret just a rather efficient setup with twin S369's getting fresh air straight through front grills, no radiator in the way since I'm using a low mount.
On a 85-90 degree day highest I have seen so far is 181 on 15.5lbs. On a cooler 70-75 degree day I saw 161 and made closer to 16lbs. I fully expect to max out the sensor on higher boost but on e85 I'm not concerned. No secret just a rather efficient setup with twin S369's getting fresh air straight through front grills, no radiator in the way since I'm using a low mount.
I thought this guy was running 10psi more than that.
yea he's referring to the mid-upper 150s thats 1nverted has seen with his large-ish twins, 15-ish psi and the 417 unit. We'll have non-intercooled track data for SLOW SEDANs car with the same turbos before long as a comparison point too. Ought to be interesting because his really isnt seeing crazy high temps boosting around on the street!
Interesting results, maybe its just the design of these intercoolers but a 60 degree rise with an a2w is nothing to brag about in the least. My buddies pt2000 with too small of lines and in the incorrect location sees a 10 degree rise on a 100 degree day. S485 on a 5.3 trapping 158 mph in a 3700lb Chevelle. You honestly should try to rig up something to pull some fresh air in.
Interesting results, maybe its just the design of these intercoolers but a 60 degree rise with an a2w is nothing to brag about in the least. My buddies pt2000 with too small of lines and in the incorrect location sees a 10 degree rise on a 100 degree day. S485 on a 5.3 trapping 158 mph in a 3700lb Chevelle. You honestly should try to rig up something to pull some fresh air in.
We've dropped over 70* in IAT, and brought temps well in to the safe region where I don't need to make decisions on whether or not to pull timing, especially on a hot day, or EVER for that matter, AND picked up significant power. That is a SIGNIFICANT win in my book. You are correct in that a fresh air source will have some benefit. Now that I have an intercooler that is cooling sufficiently, it is on my list of things to do to FURTHER improve the situation. Keep in mind this car has trapped 157mph on a slick at just shy of 4,000lbs as it was on an S484 with extremely high temps with the old cooler. With the added power and ability now to get more aggressive with the tune, we should be seeing north of that without batting an eye.
think this was mentioned before but
inlet snorkel out the hood
make it symmetric with the downpipe
j/k (maybe not)
but get that **** out from behind the radiator (please )
We've dropped over 70* in IAT, and brought temps well in to the safe region where I don't need to make decisions on whether or not to pull timing, especially on a hot day, or EVER for that matter, AND picked up significant power. That is a SIGNIFICANT win in my book. You are correct in that a fresh air source will have some benefit. Now that I have an intercooler that is cooling sufficiently, it is on my list of things to do to FURTHER improve the situation. Keep in mind this car has trapped 157mph on a slick at just shy of 4,000lbs as it was on an S484 with extremely high temps with the old cooler. With the added power and ability now to get more aggressive with the tune, we should be seeing north of that without batting an eye.
I agree the new unit is doing a much better job overall. In the grand scheme of things it is the design of these style of intercoolers that leave a little to be desired. Which for the packaging purposes is a compromise that must be made at times.
Only issues now.......I'm sure you have a 417 Motorsports unit for sale......but damn.....you'll probably have to pay someone to take it off your hands after all this ****. Do you think 417 could offer to buy back since they say there is nothing wrong with it?
Only issues now.......I'm sure you have a 417 Motorsports unit for sale......but damn.....you'll probably have to pay someone to take it off your hands after all this ****. Do you think 417 could offer to buy back since they say there is nothing wrong with it?
If it was being sold for say 1/2 the power they claim it can be used with, it would probably work just fine.
It's just clearly a bad option anywhere near their claimed power levels.
06-16-2017, 10:26 AM
(please 
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