dburt86

iTrader: (2)

Glad you got a good solution in there. Car looks amazing, keep up the good work.

Sucks to here about LJMS and 417. They should have stepped up.

Even if it worked on another car, the OP car is a pretty typical setup, in regards to turbo LS's.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

I offered that idea way early in this thread. I for one was thinkn why not? These are expensive n time consuming set ups. With way to many variables for my early non expert turbo brain to consider. I prolly learned more in this thread about IC s than any other avenue

LilJohn

Unfortunetly you do not know the whole story, as is the truth has not been told.


The person thats responsible for making things right is the person you buy products off of and give money to correct?

How is a a shop that never received money from someone responsible for anything?

Wouldn't the shop he actually gave money to be the shop thats responsible for a refund or exchange if someones not happy with a product?

408GT

iTrader: (2)

So, what's the rest of the story?

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

I do know the whole story and this has gone much further then wanting a refund or exchange. A manufacturer should stand behind their product no matter what distributor sold it. You claimed to have helped 417 design this intercooler, but neither one of you want to stand behind it. Why should anyone buy this product if nobody wants to stand behind it?

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

I think what John is getting at is he doesn't have a direct hand in this as the product was not purchased from his business.
I scanned through this post and didn't see the OP call out LJMS directly just 417 Motorsports and some distributors which may or may not be LJMS.
I think LJMS got pulled into this via someone else's post.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Always easy for the party in the wrong to make vague claims like "you don't know the whole story". Its just like most of your posts, " we gained 100hp from xyz" and then disappear. Either post your side or get out of here with that. All the OP posted was data. I haven't seen anyone else come in here with data disproving his story.

LilJohn

That distributor he's talking about is me.

The person he paid for the intercooler offered him an upgrade after the combination went half a second faster than the ET's discussed when the parts were purchased.

The person he paid for the intercooler offered him a refund.

The OP is mainly pissed at me because i got fed up with being told I was wrong and washed my hands of trying to help him in the facebook thread.

By the way RJ Blake will still buy the intercooler back. Just provide proof of purchase of the intercooler Like he asked you to the last time you spoke on the phone. Packing Slip is not Proof of Purchase, He's Just asking for an invoice/ actual receipt to show you paid for it.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Didn't you spec the cam and turbo after Sam called you about the setup? Why was it any surprise how fast it went with the parts provided? Don't you spec cams and turbos for these setups all day long? The whole point of the turbo setup was to go faster then the supercharger, the only thing holding us back from going even faster was the high IAT due to this 417 interwarmer.

Because you were wrong. You and Blake said upgrade the lines, upgrade the pump, etc which didn't make substantial cooling changes despite the cost involved. Then you told the OP that if he didn't like the intercooler he could sell it to someone else. What kind of customer service is that?

LilJohn

Customer service? Doesn't money have to exchange hands in order for someone to be a customer?

I looked in my system.. His name was not ( and still is not) in my customer directory. Therefore he has not given me Any money directly.

At what point is enough enough? I was frustrated, He was frustrated. What is left to do if a product you are using doesn't have the capacity to do the job anymore? You act like me saying Sell it was this Horrendous thing. Thats what Most people do when they max out the capability of something and need to move on to something bigger. People sell used race parts that are no longer viable to their combination EVERY SINGLE DAY on here, Facebook, Craigslist etc.

Reality of it is. the car just exceeded the capability of the part. I can only give reccomendations based on what information I'm Given. I was told it was going to be a mid to high 9 second car. And at that point the cooler worked from what i was told. Problems didn't Arise until it was pushed down into almost the teens. You sit there judging me like I am supposed to be able to Theorize everything about every car and I should just know if someones going to push a product past its limit... Do you honestly think that? That's pretty crazy. At the point the temp issues started.... I know for a fact that an upgrade to the bigger core was offered... Why wasn't it accepted?? Could've aleviated all of this BS and confusion from having too many cooks in the kitchen.

Reality of it now is Blake will buy it back, Manifolds included, if he is provided the receipt where they were paid for. Everyone can walk away and move on.

gtistile

John, you brought yourself in to my threads when *nothing* was ever asked of you or from you or your company. You're a middleman for this part, just as you are for all your other parts and that's fine. I purchased the unit through DPS who spoke very highly of his relationship and volume of business with you. I paid him, he paid you and you shipped me the intercooler. Not once did I have a gripe with you until you insisted on making every effort to discredit/mock what I had done in my testing and subsequently shift the blame on to some other part of my combo.

Since then you have decided to fabricate a bunch of false bullshit and I see here that it continues. You truly are shameless.

Fact is I was told my combo was the issue and would not be able to pay to upgrade to the larger unit, and when we asked to have the thing bought back, it fell on deaf ears. Mind you, that was BEFORE this thread was ever written. John, your excuse for "trying to help" was, and I quote "Take it off and sell it then". That was the most valuable input I ever got from you, to which I told you I wouldn't sell it to someone knowing it was not working ANYWHERE CLOSE to how you guys claimed it should.

I reached out to 417 once again today, because contrary to your story, I told Blake immediately that thee unit was sent to me by you after my phone convo with him. I literally never heard another word from him . I'll be getting the invoice info from DPS.

You are no longer needed here. Thanks

LilJohn

Fabricate... So you're basically saying what Sam McClead and Blake Hughes told me is a lie. Gotcha. Glad the Shearer unit is working for you.

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

Do you provide parts to Direct Performance Solutions? Does Direct Performance Solutions not pay you money for the parts you provide to them? Beating around the bush about receiving money directly for a part that you sell is childish.

When I purchase items that have an issue the vendor cannot resolve I turn to the manufacturer for further assistance. You acknowledged that you had a part in manufacturing this product with 417. You further stated that it supports 1500hp and advertise it as such. However this car is nowhere near 1500hp. but now you will admit to saying that even 900hp is above the capabilities of this intercooler?

The difference between a mid to high 9 and a low 9 is negligible. My $300 intercooler doesn't know the difference between an 8.50 and a 10.50, it works just fine in each scenario. This $1500 intercooler barely works as expected running in the 10's on low boost.

gtistile

John...

This has been gone over before and already discussed, but let's review since your memory is apparently shaky...

The first day out with the cooler, the combo was very new. I was pumping ice through the cooler, we were running 15psi at first and then 20 psi boost tops getting more confident, car was 1/8th mile trapping awesome, but I was less than impressed with the back half trap (everyone knows what a 5.3 and an S400 makes power wise on 20psi at this point it might be the most common LS Turbo combo there is)... Thing was falling FLAT on its face on the big end. We were pulling timing out at 150* not having a clue in the world we were going to have such high IATs. The car was going low 10s at that point. Once I found the issue to be IATs that's when I first reached out to Blake and we Juiced the line size up, put the 417 water manis on and put a huge pump on it. We netted a 10* improvement after that investment on the same boost. The car started hauling *** because I was CONVINCED by you guys that my sensor was reading wrong because no 417 cooler on that boost had ever seen those kind of temps. We opted to not pull any timing until 200* IAT, fatten the fueling up in case it was actually that hot and the car picked up despite the high IAT.

As far as the car going quicker in the 1/4, I have worked on more than just power. The car got bigger tires, suspension work, weight pulled, improved driver mod as time went on...etc. That's neither here nor there with regard to the intercooler, but that's a big part of why the car got quicker.

I will have you know I have never posted a datalog of this combo on absolute kill. I once made a pass accidentally on 35psi boost not realizing the turbo would even make that on my motor. I absolutely did NOT post that datalog as the turbo is so far out of its efficiency at that point it was irrelevant what the temps were.

*I* suggested that maybe the small core was overwhelmed somehow despite not making nearly that much HP, and was willing to give the big one a shot, and offered to pay the difference in price to get it. For whatever reason, I was denied that opportunity as it was insisted that my car/combo was the underlying problem. At that point I decided I had DPS try to see if we could return the unit after time and time again I showed mine to not perform as the others that had popped up, we never received an answer to that request. THAT is when this thread started because I needed to get my temps down to find the last bit of power I could out of the combo. I have accurately documented everything I have done very precisely.

And finally I ask you this: Why in gods name would I have gone through the trouble of BUYING YET ANOTHER INTERCOOLER if any of what you say had been offered to me? The 417 is sitting on my work bench and yet another $1600 intercooler is on the car. I have $3500 worth of intercoolers, 1/2 of which are doing nothing because I don't have it in me to "just sell it to someone else." So you tell me why I have good hard earned $ just sitting on my work bench in the form on a 417 intercooler if I had the option to send it back?

Like I said, I'm back in touch with Blake, we'll see how it goes.

gtistile

While we're discussing this I'll also have everyone know that Direct Performance Solutions, has put his $ where his mouth is from day 1 merely because he sold me on this intercooler after seeing its results on some of his own shop cars even. In fact, when mine wasn't working as others had, he went so far as to send me the EMP pump, lines, fittings, AND 417 water manifolds ON HIS OWN DIME to try and make this thing work. He has done everything in his power to make this work out for me. At the end of the day he didn't manufacture it, and there is only so much he can do in this situation. HE did at one point offer to buy it back from me, but given the climate of everything I had a hunch he would be eating the cost of the entire thing and I just didn't feel good about that. I value my relationship with him and didn't want him to have to choke on a problem that wasn't his to begin with merely for midle-manning a product he has nothing to do with. I am extremely grateful for his help throughout the entire process but I have a conscience and didn't want him to have to eat it.

Facts

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

OP and Slow, you guys have more than said your piece. LJMS has shown his true colors and he's lost at least 1 customer in me for future purchases. Data was provided above and beyond. One question, has anyone tried looking into this cooler with a scope or anything to see if there's a clog or plug somewhere? It might explain why it's worked for others and was a POS for you.

gtistile

it's very tight which would make it tough. I don't believe it to be obstructed, but if they receive it back maybe full blown closure on what happened here can be figured out.

gtistile

John.

The Invoice #s are:

for the intercooler is 100002858

for the water manifolds is 100003949

rkreigh

love the car, that is definitely not your daddy's caddy

I see it at Dulles and its bad @ for sure

A few observations "top mount" intercoolers have a pretty thin core by design which limits effectiveness no matter how cool it is. the front mounts have big thick cores which flow lots more.

I have one you can bolt on and see if you'd like to try it. Needs a BIG heat exchanger to work well but the thick core really forces the air through quite a bit more cooling core and does a much better job.

with a street car I'd just go front mount air/air and be done with it.

the current design of the "top of the manifold" design gets the durn core heated up too and the cooling is "fighting that heatsoak" which just is no bueno. Just like other designs it limits effectiveness again and makes the water work harder. all this adds up to limited heat transfer and its more restrictive than effective

just my .02

TrendSetter

earlier in the thread he addressed this fairly well by verifying volume going through the ic. there could be dead spots though, but it appeared to flow a significant volume of fluid.