417 Motorsports 1500hp Hi-Ram Intercooler: The Data
06-23-2017, 07:53 AM
#502
I work at an engine distributor for larger diesel engines. We buy from the factory and sell to dealers.
When an end customer calls us with an issue, we get involved. When one of our retarded dealers mis applies an engine, we get involved. When our dealers have issues, we get involved.
Not because we are obligated, but because its the right thing to do. We have a good reputation because of that.
And thats worth alot more then 1 or even 100 sales.
There are always 2 sides of a story, but none of that **** matters. Its about perception to other potential customers.
So even if EVERYTHING the OP has posted, including the data, is bullshit, LJMS and 417 still loses because they didnt get infront of this.
When an end customer calls us with an issue, we get involved. When one of our retarded dealers mis applies an engine, we get involved. When our dealers have issues, we get involved.
Not because we are obligated, but because its the right thing to do. We have a good reputation because of that.
And thats worth alot more then 1 or even 100 sales.
There are always 2 sides of a story, but none of that **** matters. Its about perception to other potential customers.
So even if EVERYTHING the OP has posted, including the data, is bullshit, LJMS and 417 still loses because they didnt get infront of this.
06-23-2017, 08:38 AM
#503
its unfortunate this thread has gone this way. Hopefully it doesn't get locked bc there is alot of good data here and more to share.
Op posted as a facts only/data thread. i believe he meant to show the results of his setup compared to others.
There is a huge question as to the efficiency of the 417 coolers, this is why i posted my own results as well..
What is frustrating is that they are being advertised as something they are not... It seems by the data we have gathered here that they are only reasonable well below the 1500 hp range.
Maybe the vendors who sell this product along with the manufacturer should change the hp rating description , as we have yet to find it even close to true..
Op posted as a facts only/data thread. i believe he meant to show the results of his setup compared to others.
There is a huge question as to the efficiency of the 417 coolers, this is why i posted my own results as well..
What is frustrating is that they are being advertised as something they are not... It seems by the data we have gathered here that they are only reasonable well below the 1500 hp range.
Maybe the vendors who sell this product along with the manufacturer should change the hp rating description , as we have yet to find it even close to true..
06-23-2017, 09:06 AM
#504
The water to air stuff that mounts to an intake is tricky because they flow a ton of air. There are no “end tanks” or 3”-4” inlets/outlets to bottle up flow and the core is tiny. So a seller can honestly claim this IC flows “1500 hp” worth of air. It’s the efficiency at that flow range that is in question here. There are no efficiency claims on this IC I can see? If it will flow 1500hp worth of air without an unreasonable pressure drop, then it’s acting as advertised, end of story.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
06-23-2017, 09:24 AM
#505
The water to air stuff that mounts to an intake is tricky because they flow a ton of air. There are no “end tanks” or 3”-4” inlets/outlets to bottle up flow and the core is tiny. So a seller can honestly claim this IC flows “1500 hp” worth of air. It’s the efficiency at that flow range that is in question here. There are no efficiency claims on this IC I can see? If it will flow 1500hp worth of air without an unreasonable pressure drop, then it’s acting as advertised, end of story.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
Kinda like my T7875 has a 1,200 HP Rating but I know on a 347" LS that will never happen due to the small turbine.
06-23-2017, 09:42 AM
#506
The water to air stuff that mounts to an intake is tricky because they flow a ton of air. There are no “end tanks” or 3”-4” inlets/outlets to bottle up flow and the core is tiny. So a seller can honestly claim this IC flows “1500 hp” worth of air. It’s the efficiency at that flow range that is in question here. There are no efficiency claims on this IC I can see? If it will flow 1500hp worth of air without an unreasonable pressure drop, then it’s acting as advertised, end of story.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
06-23-2017, 09:53 AM
#507
What if your turbo was designed and marketed for a LS engines and had a rating of 1200hp? Would you be upset when it made 500 less than that? And when you talk to the people who make the turbo they tell you to upgrade other parts of your turbo kit because the turbo is fine it's got to be something else.....
06-23-2017, 10:04 AM
#508
What if your turbo was designed and marketed for a LS engines and had a rating of 1200hp? Would you be upset when it made 500 less than that? And when you talk to the people who make the turbo they tell you to upgrade other parts of your turbo kit because the turbo is fine it's got to be something else.....
I've been curious to see the outcome of this as I have a couple friends running the same 417 I/C but haven't really started leaning on their combos yet.
06-23-2017, 10:06 AM
#509
This again? I found his observations very helpful and points out the importance of thinking thru important purchases. Yours, not so much. Just feeds the bitching. BTW, I did not perceive the op as bitching, just laying out his side of the story. No one said that 417 is perfect or without blame.
06-23-2017, 10:09 AM
#510
What if your turbo was designed and marketed for a LS engines and had a rating of 1200hp? Would you be upset when it made 500 less than that? And when you talk to the people who make the turbo they tell you to upgrade other parts of your turbo kit because the turbo is fine it's got to be something else.....
06-25-2017, 01:46 AM
#515
I definitely drank the Kool Aide on both these guys before really understanding or knowing how they operate. Lots was learned to say the least. Time and time again I see the same antics used when someone speaks up about how they were treated or dealt with. It's deny and bash the guy who has asked for assistance.
As far as not being a vendor anymore I'm sure the finances play in somewhat, but what I've realized too is the endlessly renewing pool of suckers (such as myself initially) who are joining the facebook groups every day. Much easier to there to conduct business this way than it is in an actual community where these convos can be searched and reviewed before pulling the trigger on a product or company.
I can absolutely tell you over on facebook there were several guys talking about how great their 417 coolers were, only for it to do some digging where it was finally exposed later that they had either A)never installed them, or B) didn't actually have any data to back up the claims.
Most puzzling of all tho are the select few who actually DID post their data and the temps looked perfectly fine. This I have yet to totally wrap my head around because there are so many factors with slow reading sensors...etc. At the end of the day, for me, it wasn't so much that the thing didn't perform as I was assured it would, but rather the way it was handled and how I was treated when it didn't work. Keep in mind I tried to take care of the whole deal behind closed doors repeatedly before asking publicly for help.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have reached a conclusion on it and now have a functioning cooler, it just sucks to now have $1800 worth of intercooler sitting here that quite honestly I can't imagine anyone is going to want to pay good $ for once I put the data out. Double edged sword. If I have helped anyone from making the same mistake I still feel good about it even if my pockets are a little lighter lol
As far as not being a vendor anymore I'm sure the finances play in somewhat, but what I've realized too is the endlessly renewing pool of suckers (such as myself initially) who are joining the facebook groups every day. Much easier to there to conduct business this way than it is in an actual community where these convos can be searched and reviewed before pulling the trigger on a product or company.
I can absolutely tell you over on facebook there were several guys talking about how great their 417 coolers were, only for it to do some digging where it was finally exposed later that they had either A)never installed them, or B) didn't actually have any data to back up the claims.
Most puzzling of all tho are the select few who actually DID post their data and the temps looked perfectly fine. This I have yet to totally wrap my head around because there are so many factors with slow reading sensors...etc. At the end of the day, for me, it wasn't so much that the thing didn't perform as I was assured it would, but rather the way it was handled and how I was treated when it didn't work. Keep in mind I tried to take care of the whole deal behind closed doors repeatedly before asking publicly for help.
Anyhow, I am pleased to have reached a conclusion on it and now have a functioning cooler, it just sucks to now have $1800 worth of intercooler sitting here that quite honestly I can't imagine anyone is going to want to pay good $ for once I put the data out. Double edged sword. If I have helped anyone from making the same mistake I still feel good about it even if my pockets are a little lighter lol
At the end of the day, consumers provide feedback (positive and negative) on these public forums for the sole intent of protecting unassuming consumers and to also help these vendor's make changes to offer better products (which is a good thing). If a vendor sells a product that ends up being garbage, their attempt and success in fixing the issue can actually generate far more positive public advertising than just paying to be a sponsor. The power of these forums is off the charts when it comes to making or breaking a company. It is both a blessing and a curse. It only takes one dead beat consumer to wreak havoc on a companies reputation, but that is now part of the game. Unfortunately, all it takes is one dick head to ruin, or at least jeopardize a good companies reputation. On the other hand though, the same power of the forums that allowed this problem to surface, gives the vendor a very nice outlet to turn the situation around and save face.
Enough rambling. The bottom line is this. When discussing business (either good or bad) dealings with these vendor's, the internet is an extremely powerful tool that needs to be respected. At the end of the day though, it allows for the real story to surface at some point. It may be a little lop sided where it takes much more effort for the vendor to clear his name in these bad situations, but that comes with the territory of being able to advertise to these massive groups of people on the forums. Like I said, a curse and a blessing.
I don't care who you are or what your involvement is/was in this case, I have to hand it to the OP for handling it the way he did. Above and beyond is an understatement.
Last edited by Blown06; 06-25-2017 at 02:19 AM.
06-25-2017, 10:29 AM
#516
The water to air stuff that mounts to an intake is tricky because they flow a ton of air. There are no “end tanks” or 3”-4” inlets/outlets to bottle up flow and the core is tiny. So a seller can honestly claim this IC flows “1500 hp” worth of air. It’s the efficiency at that flow range that is in question here. There are no efficiency claims on this IC I can see? If it will flow 1500hp worth of air without an unreasonable pressure drop, then it’s acting as advertised, end of story.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
The fact that people read into the advertisement incorrectly or are falsely informed about what this unit can do is another story.
If someone sold this unit to a customer telling them it would effectively keep the air charge below X temp at Y boost on their particular setup then they need to stand behind that. If a consumer buys something advertised as a “1500 hp” intercooler and doesn’t understand there is no “one part fits all” 1500 hp intercooler, then it’s on buyer IMO.
I’d do serious research before dropping that kind of cash on a part. With my very limited knowledge of a heat exchanger looking at this unit I’d be VERY skeptical. Enough that I would have researched it a ton and gotten the sellers word that this IC would be an effective part on my specific setup anyway. If they wouldn’t guarantee it’s performance, I wouldn’t have bought the part.
Heres why, imho, this explanation, its more a mere play on words. Almost a lawyer language. If they too believed this to be true, than they would have played that card from jump n washed thier hands of this initially. Long before sending the OP on a wild goose chase of expensive parts n lotsa real world testing. Its misleading to say the least. Id still like to see them buy it back, n obviously say "look we found it clogged or defective" how would we ever know or prove it. Lol. Please dont be offended. I believe your defending this situation from a "technical" standpoint. We live in a "practical" world
Jus my worthless $.02
Last edited by rkupon1; 06-25-2017 at 10:34 AM.
