417 Motorsports 1500hp Hi-Ram Intercooler: The Data
03-18-2017, 11:57 PM
#121
Although an Innovate TC-4 as was mentioned before and 4 thermocouples would give a lot of info for a relatively sensible cost.
The PLX Devices is a waste of money as their unit only allows one thermocouple per amplifier so would be very very pricey.
But it is pointless throwing that money at it. That money will not fix the problem, and would go a long way to fixing it via a different cooler unit.
The PLX Devices is a waste of money as their unit only allows one thermocouple per amplifier so would be very very pricey.
But it is pointless throwing that money at it. That money will not fix the problem, and would go a long way to fixing it via a different cooler unit.
maybe the op should do a kickstarter for a four channel setup...air in/out and water in/out...i'd throw in just to put this **** to rest...the unknown is killing me
03-19-2017, 05:48 AM
#122
9 Second Club
A TC-4 retails at US$135.
And there are various thermocouples on egay from as low as a few dollars.
Whether any reading is "correct" or not from a cheaper sensor is less relevant as comparing the readings from 4 sensors together as would be the case here.
And one control box is a lot easier than ******* about with 4 of them.
So $500 ? no.
And there are various thermocouples on egay from as low as a few dollars.
Whether any reading is "correct" or not from a cheaper sensor is less relevant as comparing the readings from 4 sensors together as would be the case here.
And one control box is a lot easier than ******* about with 4 of them.
So $500 ? no.
03-19-2017, 08:02 AM
#123
see...i was missing something haha
i was assuming there was something "special" about the thermocouples like they have a certain amount of quality control or whatever that they require so they know things will calibrate properly with their control unit. kinda like how they will say that only certain bosch o2 sensors will work with a controller even though they have interchanging part numbers. probably bs too
either way ~$140 to lock this down seems like a cheap investment and you have a new tool in your box for checking alot of ****
i was assuming there was something "special" about the thermocouples like they have a certain amount of quality control or whatever that they require so they know things will calibrate properly with their control unit. kinda like how they will say that only certain bosch o2 sensors will work with a controller even though they have interchanging part numbers. probably bs too
either way ~$140 to lock this down seems like a cheap investment and you have a new tool in your box for checking alot of ****
03-19-2017, 10:16 AM
#124
TECH Fanatic
^^^Good ol HINDSIGHT! Problem is, he s already very invested in this set up thru initial costs and build. He owes it to himself and his pocket to spend alil more, go alil further, and hopefully know for sure. Like i said, hindsight. Bcuz of this thread n testing, i certainly saved almost 3k cash. Of that im quite sure
His pain=our gain unfortunately. Bcuz next guy will read this n prolly do exactly as you suggested! Its kinda lose lose
His pain=our gain unfortunately. Bcuz next guy will read this n prolly do exactly as you suggested! Its kinda lose lose
Its not even like you bashing them- your giving an honest review and going well above and beyond to make it work.
03-19-2017, 11:09 AM
#125
hey bud just wanted to give you an update. were out here at tx2k doing test and tune , first time running on this new setup.
lsx block
twin borg 369sxe
417 1500 hp intercooler
its prob a good 76* out here
ill have som le comparable data for you today, were gonna run only a couple 1/8mile passes adjust, then dip into 1/4..
lsx block
twin borg 369sxe
417 1500 hp intercooler
its prob a good 76* out here
ill have som le comparable data for you today, were gonna run only a couple 1/8mile passes adjust, then dip into 1/4..
03-19-2017, 12:07 PM
#126
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
hey bud just wanted to give you an update. were out here at tx2k doing test and tune , first time running on this new setup.
lsx block
twin borg 369sxe
417 1500 hp intercooler
its prob a good 76* out here
ill have som le comparable data for you today, were gonna run only a couple 1/8mile passes adjust, then dip into 1/4..
lsx block
twin borg 369sxe
417 1500 hp intercooler
its prob a good 76* out here
ill have som le comparable data for you today, were gonna run only a couple 1/8mile passes adjust, then dip into 1/4..
looking forward to it man. Good luck out there!!!
03-19-2017, 09:37 PM
#127
Just throwing this out there but this is what the upper and lower manifold of a 2.3 whipple look like with the intercooler installed and the compressor removed. With a little fab work would make a very interesting comparison point to the 417, as far as temperature control goes.
03-20-2017, 10:06 AM
#128
well unfortunately tx2k was not a good event to do tnt at, we kept getting delayed for tnt rounds because of track prep. unfortunately i dont think i have very good data for you other than 1 1\8 mile pass.
We think we have most of the bugs worked out and plan on going again friday for some redemption and a clean full pass. ill keep you posted
We think we have most of the bugs worked out and plan on going again friday for some redemption and a clean full pass. ill keep you posted
03-21-2017, 02:28 AM
#129
I've got to side with the idea of not wasting any more money on it. The thing is obviously a piece of ****......spending money measuring and data logging at this point does nothing except reinforce what you have already found.
Like was said above, it's not like you didn't give it a legitimate chance.....also you are not the only one who have come to this same conclusion. It's ******* sad that this thing actually came to the market. The question at this point is did the people who created this thing not test at all......or did they have so much money invested in it.....they thought releasing it with bullshit data would generate enough income before people quit buying it???
Like was said above, it's not like you didn't give it a legitimate chance.....also you are not the only one who have come to this same conclusion. It's ******* sad that this thing actually came to the market. The question at this point is did the people who created this thing not test at all......or did they have so much money invested in it.....they thought releasing it with bullshit data would generate enough income before people quit buying it???
03-21-2017, 09:09 AM
#131
Being that the OP has come this far, I think he might as well go all the way and get that final piece of data. Only b/c the critics will cling to that "missing" piece of info and hang their hats on it. With all the data avail, critics will not me able to move the goal post on the OP any longer.
03-21-2017, 09:27 AM
#132
Being that the OP has come this far, I think he might as well go all the way and get that final piece of data. Only b/c the critics will cling to that "missing" piece of info and hang their hats on it. With all the data avail, critics will not me able to move the goal post on the OP any longer.
To the OP, i ll chip in a $20 paypal donation towards the "final testing" if it truly puts it to bed. Why not, i feel like this thread saved me $3000.
03-21-2017, 09:31 AM
#133
Yes I did help with the design of it. Push? Nope. Made it available and a lot of people wanted it.
You can sit there and trash it all you want to. But that core was put through the wringer on Crusty Nova for MONTHS before the original one came out. Shane pushed 1300 rwhp through that core pushing it WAY past its rated capacity and it would still turn 350 degree pre ic temps into 120 degree air going into the motor. Is it Perfect? no. It wasn't designed to be. it was designed to be the best compromise between packaging and performance.
03-21-2017, 10:47 AM
#135
Since you helped with the design then you can answer a couple questions.
What core do you use and what is the quality control process? It appears to be a 16x6x2.25 core which if its a Bell core is rated for ~680cfm. Curious how you get a 1500hp rating from 680cfm if that is correct? Is the 1500 rating crank or wheel hp?
Would you agree the OP's turbo should be good to 1200whp so it shouldn't be maxed out making a few hundred less hp. You have the airflow of an S484? Figure its at least 120lb/min?
What core do you use and what is the quality control process? It appears to be a 16x6x2.25 core which if its a Bell core is rated for ~680cfm. Curious how you get a 1500hp rating from 680cfm if that is correct? Is the 1500 rating crank or wheel hp?
Would you agree the OP's turbo should be good to 1200whp so it shouldn't be maxed out making a few hundred less hp. You have the airflow of an S484? Figure its at least 120lb/min?
03-21-2017, 01:23 PM
#136
Yes I did help with the design of it. Push? Nope. Made it available and a lot of people wanted it.
You can sit there and trash it all you want to. But that core was put through the wringer on Crusty Nova for MONTHS before the original one came out. Shane pushed 1300 rwhp through that core pushing it WAY past its rated capacity and it would still turn 350 degree pre ic temps into 120 degree air going into the motor. Is it Perfect? no. It wasn't designed to be. it was designed to be the best compromise between packaging and performance.
You can sit there and trash it all you want to. But that core was put through the wringer on Crusty Nova for MONTHS before the original one came out. Shane pushed 1300 rwhp through that core pushing it WAY past its rated capacity and it would still turn 350 degree pre ic temps into 120 degree air going into the motor. Is it Perfect? no. It wasn't designed to be. it was designed to be the best compromise between packaging and performance.
03-21-2017, 01:26 PM
#137
Originally Posted by 1nverted
well unfortunately tx2k was not a good event to do tnt at, we kept getting delayed for tnt rounds because of track prep. unfortunately i dont think i have very good data for you other than 1 1\8 mile pass.
We think we have most of the bugs worked out and plan on going again friday for some redemption and a clean full pass. ill keep you posted
We think we have most of the bugs worked out and plan on going again friday for some redemption and a clean full pass. ill keep you posted
45* water before hit (mild pre chill.) 75* IAT when you left on T brake (6lbs.) Due to waste gate spring only the boost traced RPM meaning it dropped to 6 and peaked at 12 during each shift. All of which was done on a 1/8 mile pass. Ending IAT was 125*. Friday we will know for sure as we are going to make a full 1/4 hit.
03-21-2017, 01:32 PM
#138
Since you helped with the design then you can answer a couple questions.
What core do you use and what is the quality control process? It appears to be a 16x6x2.25 core which if its a Bell core is rated for ~680cfm. Curious how you get a 1500hp rating from 680cfm if that is correct? Is the 1500 rating crank or wheel hp?
Would you agree the OP's turbo should be good to 1200whp so it shouldn't be maxed out making a few hundred less hp. You have the airflow of an S484? Figure its at least 120lb/min?
What core do you use and what is the quality control process? It appears to be a 16x6x2.25 core which if its a Bell core is rated for ~680cfm. Curious how you get a 1500hp rating from 680cfm if that is correct? Is the 1500 rating crank or wheel hp?
Would you agree the OP's turbo should be good to 1200whp so it shouldn't be maxed out making a few hundred less hp. You have the airflow of an S484? Figure its at least 120lb/min?
I had nothing to do with the rating. That came from the core's manufacturer.
03-21-2017, 01:46 PM
#139
In a respectful manor, i have a question for ya. Giving everything you ve seen and know, would you still rate it at 1500hp personally? I agree its defly an alternative to a big ol a2a set up. And is still beneficial to maybe a streetcar with air conditiining and other packaging restraints.
I think the core rating is in an absolute perfect environment. Its obvious we don't have that. I do think its a little optimistic, But what else are you going to use? There are a lot of things in life rated to show its maximum capability. Shane made 1300 to the tire with that core, Id say thats 1500 flywheel or more. Wes made 1800 to the ground through the 2000 hp core.
There have been multiple claims people have had problems with the 1500... Besides the OP, I can't say I remember anyone coming to me with this big of an issue with it. Some have had insufficient pump and line sizes that we fixed and got the cooler to perform as expected. Others have just pushed it past its design parameters and had to upgrade it.
03-21-2017, 02:02 PM
#140
I know you know this but figured I'd chime in.
45* water before hit (mild pre chill.) 75* IAT when you left on T brake (6lbs.) Due to waste gate spring only the boost traced RPM meaning it dropped to 6 and peaked at 12 during each shift. All of which was done on a 1/8 mile pass. Ending IAT was 125*. Friday we will know for sure as we are going to make a full 1/4 hit.
45* water before hit (mild pre chill.) 75* IAT when you left on T brake (6lbs.) Due to waste gate spring only the boost traced RPM meaning it dropped to 6 and peaked at 12 during each shift. All of which was done on a 1/8 mile pass. Ending IAT was 125*. Friday we will know for sure as we are going to make a full 1/4 hit.
In a respectful manor, i have a question for ya. Giving everything you ve seen and know, would you still rate it at 1500hp personally? I agree its defly an alternative to a big ol a2a set up. And is still beneficial to maybe a streetcar with air conditiining and other packaging restraints.