417 Motorsports 1500hp Hi-Ram Intercooler: The Data
04-05-2017, 08:06 PM
#324
Important thing is this thread is being kept alive for ALL to see. Carry on with the blame/insults/slander everyone
Last edited by rkupon1; 04-05-2017 at 08:19 PM.
04-06-2017, 10:28 AM
#325
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
04-06-2017, 10:51 AM
#326
Well.... Yes
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
and if you're still not happy, sell it to someone else, advertise it as a 500 HP car and let it be their disappointment...
Last edited by TXsilverado; 04-06-2017 at 10:59 AM.
04-06-2017, 10:56 AM
#327
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Well.... Yes
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
04-06-2017, 11:01 AM
#328
Well.... Yes
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
04-06-2017, 11:35 AM
#329
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Well.... Yes
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
Because they over play the capacity advertising doesn't change the quality of the product
That's like taking the best 120lb injector on the market and calling in a POS because it won't supply enough fuel to feed 2500hp
The 417 core is 21% smaller than a garrett 1000hp core..... And the Garrett is more efficient than a bell....
Should be fairly easy to draw a conclusion if you use common sense
This, to me, is a pretty clear indication that either A) the unit in question is not producing the results they would expect, or B) they have no idea what to expect.
It could be either. It's a good looking piece. But then again, for instance, Huron Speed has introduced their 88mm turbo and priced it at the same cost as a BW 88... $2500 The BW part is the product of scientific design, testing, redesign, and testing that a huge corporation can afford. They provide compressor maps, so you know what to expect. The Huron part has a cool looking bullet shaped compressor nut, a polished compressor housing, and they have not done any form of testing. They haven't even run one on an engine. They have no idea how well or poorly it will perform. You bet that cool looking nut will sell some units. There's a huge market of people that drop coin because something looks cool.
However, there's one thing I don't recall seeing in the Huron post... any stated performance expectation.
So, what level of market competitor is 417 Motorsports? Are they a business that's only into it for the 1 time sale? Producing products that look good, yet perform poor? Or, are they truly interested in producing a quality product that performs as good as it looks?
Time will tell.
04-06-2017, 11:45 AM
#330
We could make comparisons all day long. The reality of it is, 417 Motorsports seems to be in agreement that there's something wrong too. Being that they've made recommendations to improve the condition, and requested further testing to verify an issue of substandard performance actually exists.
This, to me, is a pretty clear indication that either A) the unit in question is not producing the results they would expect, or B) they have no idea what to expect.
It could be either. It's a good looking piece. But then again, for instance, Huron Speed has introduced their 88mm turbo and priced it at the same cost as a BW 88... $2500 The BW part is the product of scientific design, testing, redesign, and testing that a huge corporation can afford. They provide compressor maps, so you know what to expect. The Huron part has a cool looking bullet shaped compressor nut, a polished compressor housing, and they have not done any form of testing. They haven't even run one on an engine. They have no idea how well or poorly it will perform. You bet that cool looking nut will sell some units. There's a huge market of people that drop coin because something looks cool.
However, there's one thing I don't recall seeing in the Huron post... any stated performance expectation.
So, what level of market competitor is 417 Motorsports? Are they a business that's only into it for the 1 time sale? Producing products that look good, yet perform poor? Or, are they truly interested in producing a quality product that performs as good as it looks?
Time will tell.
This, to me, is a pretty clear indication that either A) the unit in question is not producing the results they would expect, or B) they have no idea what to expect.
It could be either. It's a good looking piece. But then again, for instance, Huron Speed has introduced their 88mm turbo and priced it at the same cost as a BW 88... $2500 The BW part is the product of scientific design, testing, redesign, and testing that a huge corporation can afford. They provide compressor maps, so you know what to expect. The Huron part has a cool looking bullet shaped compressor nut, a polished compressor housing, and they have not done any form of testing. They haven't even run one on an engine. They have no idea how well or poorly it will perform. You bet that cool looking nut will sell some units. There's a huge market of people that drop coin because something looks cool.
However, there's one thing I don't recall seeing in the Huron post... any stated performance expectation.
So, what level of market competitor is 417 Motorsports? Are they a business that's only into it for the 1 time sale? Producing products that look good, yet perform poor? Or, are they truly interested in producing a quality product that performs as good as it looks?
Time will tell.
04-06-2017, 12:17 PM
#331
i think the biggest complaint here is the false advertising. would you would be totally happy if chevy sold you a camaro with 500 advertised horsepower and delivered a 200 HP car? it still runs great and gets 30 mpg so you should be happy even though you paid top dollar for a high performance car.
and if you're still not happy, sell it to someone else, advertise it as a 500 HP car and let it be their disappointment...
and if you're still not happy, sell it to someone else, advertise it as a 500 HP car and let it be their disappointment...
04-06-2017, 12:50 PM
#332
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Where is this false advertisement? Anyone have a link? You CAN make 1500hp on that intercooler. It will physically flow enough air. It’s just application specific… Similar to turbos, fuel pumps, etc. Some can make 1500hp on low boost or with larger turbo(s) that don’t heat the air as much and it will do an “OK” job of cooling at those levels. I don’t see it claiming anywhere that it will cool the air temps down below ambient at 28-30psi on any turbo setup? My Magnafuel 4303 pump is rated at 2000hp...not happening at the pressures and fuel I run.
However, I would like to see this specific unit perform at a level that's agreeable to most, as satisfactory. Or, for them (417) to say this is what you should expect from their product when used in this application.
So far, the evidence indicates they (417) expect it to provide better results than it is. Otherwise, why all the input on improving flow and requests for additional testing?
04-06-2017, 01:05 PM
#333
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Personally, the price would have to be a dramatic savings for me to pass up on the intense engineering and testing BW does in favor of the knock off option with the cool looking nut. I own knock off turbos. However, I didn't pay premium prices for them.
04-06-2017, 06:22 PM
#336
The product is misleading. Yes, it may be able to flow 1500hp of air and actually produce 1500hp using methanol, whatever. What's missing is the efficiency spec and test parameters that achieved said spec. The takeaway for me is, when spec'ing a part or system, what is the goal/requirement and does the product meet/exceed the need
At this point, I think it was mentioned, the cheapest option may be water/meth injection to reduce pre-cooler temps.
At this point, I think it was mentioned, the cheapest option may be water/meth injection to reduce pre-cooler temps.
04-06-2017, 09:25 PM
#339
Just an observation, but pressure drop is perhaps the most easily tested and least useful data for an intercooler. If we only use that spec, a piece of straight tubing would be the best intercooler. Actual efficiency as a working intercooler is a much more complicated matter to determine, and would vary a lot depending on each particular car combo. However, I have certainly never seen a multi-page thread questioning whether or not a Treadstone works as advertised.