ZigZagZ

Last time I went to fill up at my regular gas station I noticed a new label on the pump that stated the gasoline contained up to 10% Ethanol. Does a blended gasoline with ethanol have any effects on our cars?

Any one who's had a negative experience with this stuff?

chadaclysm

Almost all gas stations have gas with 10% ethanol. I highly doubt you'll notice any difference, but I've heard claims of slightly lower gas mileage with ethanol added. I usually try to fill up with 100% gas, but that is mostly because the place that has no ethanol added near me is usually a good bit cheaper than the other places.

ZigZagZ

I used Shell for a long time, until I got a tank full of high sulfer gasoline. The sulfer reacted with the tank level sending unit, and as a result my gas gauge always read full. The repair bill was $1,400.00 to repair/replace everything. I filed a claim with my insurance company, and settled out of court with Shell.

Since then I've avoided Shell, and have used a discount place close to my home. I was just wondering if there are pro or cons to using an ethanol blend.

Firebirdfan

Uh...guys....you realize they've been putting ethanol in gasoline for ages, right? They use to use MTBE (or some other crazy acronym) as an oxegenator in the fuel. However, MTBE is EXTREMELY toxic. One tablespoon is enough to contaminate an entire city's water supply. Back in the 90s, they had an issue with it leaking from gas stations tanks and contaminating water in California.
Ever since then, they've used a small concentration of ethanol in gasoline. However, the government recently mandated that they put more in the fuel (up to 10%). ALL GASOLINE TODAY HAS ETHANOL IN IT. PERIOD, END OF STORY. ANYONE ADVERTISING 100% GASOLINE IS ONLY DOING IT TO GET BUSINESS.

The higher ethanol blend does cause a slight decrease in fuel economy (the engine needs just a bit more as the ethanol has less internal energy), however, it's not usually more than an MPG or 2. My Prix went from about a consistent 30mpg on the highway to around 28-29 consistently. Not a huge change. It does artificially raise your octane though. More fuel is being burned, and it burns a bit slower, so you do get a very slight octane boost. A lot of supercharged grand prix guys noticed that they lost a bit of KR (about a degree or so, sometimes more).

Nemesis350

iTrader: (11)

^^ +1

Dont know anything about the MTBE thing, but everything else is right on

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

Not saying this isn't true, but do you have an proof?

I did my engineering masters capstone project on ethanol and the affects on internal combustion engines, and it's not a good thing, in general, for engines never intended to run on it. I can still find 'ethanol free' gas stations and I ALWAYS get better gas fuel economy after a few tanks with the 'non-e' stuff. IF there is ethanol in there, like you say, it must me at a much smaller quantity. I would like to get some sort of testing kit and try it out.

I see you are in Knox...what part?

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

FYI, ethanol has 33% less energy content per volume. So at a 10% mix, it's roughly a 3.3% loss in energy, which is typically the loss in fuel economy most ppl experience.

From a performance standpoint, the only real benefit is the higher octane, so technically you could build a higher compression ratio engine to take advantage of this. However, you would always have to use that blend in order for it to run.

Ethanol has always been widely used in the northwest, but has been slow to grow in other regional markets.

Firebirdfan

^I first heard about this from one of the guys who leads our SAE chapter (Society of Automotive Engineers) at UTK. The guy has done god knows how much research into emissions, fuels, and engines than I can even comprehend. I believe his major is chemistry (never asked, but i think it is). I'm also pretty sure he's working with ORNL in Oak Ridge right now with emissions testing as well as doing stuff with the university. We brought up Ethanol in a discussion one day and he chimed in with what I just posted.

From what I've read, ALL gasoline has some amount of ethanol in it. That's true. How much depends on your area. When you see that "warning" about the ethanol amount. It means that UP TO 10% may be in the fuel. It might be less depending on where you live, but I doubt it's much less than that. 100% gasoline hasn't existed in years.

Also, I'm in North Knox right now. I attend UTK (mech. engineering major).

^I've seen it a lot here in the South. Almost every pump has the 10% thing on it. I know a lot in Knoxville do and every pump I went to in Asheville, SC had it as well. It seems like many large cities need to mandate it in order to meet air quality requirements.

ZigZagZ

Ethanol has been around for a long time, and my understanding was that it was mandated in some parts of the country, but not the entire USA.

The label on the pump I was refering to was at Walmart. Until recently Ethanol had not been advertised at this station, and am assuming this is new to this station. Gasoline has always been sold under strict government regulations (octane, meter accuracy, truth in labeling, etc).

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

only this area has seen ethanol blended gas since around 2006; decades longer in other areas (Iowa, Minnesota, ect.). I would like to meet your friend; I'm trying to get my foot in the door over at NTRC, which is run through ORNL. I'm also with DOE, but I'm at Y-12, not ORNL. Mechanical Engineering here as well.

If you've ever met 'Wild Ron', I bought his old camaro. He's from Halls; I live in West Knoxville.

As for 'ethanol free' gas stations in Knoxville, I know of 2. I would like to test them for ethanol content and see what % REALLY is in their blends. I do know my oldsmobile gets another 30-45 miles per tank from the conoco across from the Rice Buick dealership on a 450+ miles range. I also do a lot of research in filtration (for work), and this is one of the few pumps I can actually see their post pump filter rating, which is 10 microns.

Firebirdfan

Yes, and for what it's worth, it IS true. It might not have 10% like many do, but it does have ethanol in the fuel.

There are only so many drilling platforms and refineries in the world. All of these refineries provide fuel to the gas companies (Exxon, BP, etc). Each of these companies might have different detergents (think Shell and nitrogen) and other additives in the fuel, but there WILL be ethanol in the gas in some concentration. It might not be 10%, but it's there. If you've put gas in a car in the past decade, then you've put ethanol in your car. 100% gasoline doesn't exist. If anyone posts it, it's a marketing scheme for your $$$$$$.

Firebirdfan

Like I said, you might have less ethanol in the gas, but it's still there. Less ethanol content = more powerful ignition = more power.

As far as I know, every conoco station I've ever went to has had the 10% thing posted. I have a hard time believing that they'd use more than one formula across the nation. That just doesn't seem cost effective. I know that the Conoco by my house in Cleveland, TN has the "up to 10% ethanol" sign on all the pumps. I've yet to visit one in Knox as BP stations are much more plentiful.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

We've had E10 fuel here in Chicago for over 2 decades.

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

Ethanol is added either at the station or the local shipping yard. This I know.

Ironic, I'm from Ooltewah, small world. Still got some property in Bradley County near white oak mountain/Baugh Springs area.

As for the sticker, it's a state law passed in 2007 that if it's blended, the pump must say it.

01 ss vert

iTrader: (1)

I do have a question though; why does ALL gas have ethanol in it like you say? Ethanol is fermented sugar (how alcohol is made) from a food/growth source (corn, sugar cain, algae) and seems like it wouldn't be in the mix unless intentionally put in there. Why put it in at 1, 2, 3, ect % quantities? Ethanol isn't formed from a chemical reaction, but rather from a fermented source and then added to the blend.