Firebirdfan

I found a 99 WS6 TA at a dealership for 13k. It has 67,500 miles. Were gonna check the car out this Saturday and see what kind of condition it's in. From the pics, it looks pretty good. The only problem is that my parents think that because the car has that kind of mileage, it's total crap. I'm going to college next year and they think that if I got the car, it would have problem after problem after problem, and I'd be constantly feeding money into the car. I've tried to tell them that the LS1 is one of the best GM engines ever and that it has very few problems even with 67,xxx miles. I know a lot of people on here have got high(er) mileage LS1s and have had little to no problems with them. No matter what I try, they refuse to even consider buying it. I'm lucky that I even get to go LOOK at it.

They are still under the impression that it is an "old" car and it is plauged with all sorts of problems that GM used to be known for. They still try to bring up the "imports will last longer" arguement, but refuse to listen to why the LS1 is a great engine. They want me in a newer GM car (2000+) because for some reason, GM suddenly became reliable in the new millenium. I know that TAs were made until 02, but insurance would be killing me. Also, there are VERY, VERY few TAs around here and even fewer are for a halfway decent price. I think this car would be great, but they don't. I just needed to rant a bit, so feel free to comment or whatever, I feel better just typing this....

Starz T/A 17

iTrader: (6)

They are aware that from 98-02 GM used basically the same engine in their cars right? Damm people are gettin dumber and dumber with cars now a days I dont think high milage until at least 100 K and even now a days it really isnt that much

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

tell them to research about LS1 F bodys.

giant016

iTrader: (4)

They're buying a 13K car for you? I don't think you're allowed to complain. Do some searching and I'm sure you can find a seller to haggle with and get a lower mileage 2000 for a decent price. Sometimes it's worth it to drive a little bit to find the right car.

To be honest I've heard mixed reviews about higher mileage LS1s, but I wouldn't consider a 67K that high. If you could find a more reliable high 12/low 13 second import in the LS1 price range I would be surprised.

Firebirdfan

^No, my parents do not know that the same engine was used from 98-02, but it doesn't matter. To them, it's like this:

Import over 50,000 = good reliable car that has a lot of life left in it
Import over 100,000 = good reliable car that has a lot of life left in it
Import over 150,000 = good reliable car that has a lot of life left in it

Domestic car (2000+) over 50,000 = a "meh" car, good, but not great
Domestic car (earlier than 2000) over 50,000 = total crap, problematic car.

Somehow, I have to figure out a way to prove to them that the car isn't a total crap pile because of its mileage. I'm gonna have one of the guys from my work (a big car guy) meet us there and he'll be my "backup" for the LS1. So this Saturday is gonna be 2 for the LS1 vs. 2 that are against the LS1. It'll be interesting. I'm waiting to see the salesperson's face when he sees 4 people arguing over 1 car.

ChocoTaco369

first, bust out some facts about imports:

imports are seen less at the shop because up until a few years ago, they had a very small market share compared to american cars. look at all the old cars on the road. most will be GM cars mixed with a few mercedes. i can't tell you how many old cavaliers i see on the road. i know, totally different car, but GM makes a good engine, the best of the american automakers.

i predict, now that imports are narrowing the gap in market share, in 5 years you will see just as many imports in the shop. only difference will be the parts will be more expensive. our V8's are easier to work on than honda 4 cylinders. ever see a honda engine bay? omg! what a mess!

mention how toyota is currently being reamed because they aren't having recalls. toyota hasn't been researching or issuing recalls lately because they don't want to hurt their image with the recalls. japanese car makers aren't all they're cracked up to be.

oh yea, tell them to ask a transmission shop which transmissions he sees most often. any transmission shop owner will tell you he frequents honda transmissions. it's no secret that honda CANNOT make an automatic trans to save their life. they're a total pile of crap. we bust on 4L60E's? a 4L60E would be invincible compared to any honda automatic tranny. they actually have to tune the NSX down what, 40hp so the automatic doesn't blow up?

ask your parents to research ron ananian "the car doctor". i was listening to him on sunday and all the crap japanese car companies get away with. the 'reliability' of japanese cars are mainly the product of media praise. they are totally blowing up japanese cars right now because their fuel economy is on average better, while any time GM slips up it's front page news. do you think toyota's anti-recall policies are on the front page? how about the hyundai scanal? the toyota sexual harrassment case? these companies are no better than an american company, and neither are the cars.

alright, so enough tearing up the jap traps. my dad was the same way when i bought my car. he said yea it's an old car, save your money and buy a prius or something. he hates driving, and i tell him over and over he hates driving because he drives a cavalier (just traded it in for a cobalt). if he'd buy a car that's fun to drive, he wouldn't mind the commute to work. my work commute is AWFUL but i love my car and it makes it manageable. fortunately, i didn't have to put up with my parents' crap because i paid for my car out of my own pocket, cash

i would just tell them "look, i appreciate your concern, but i'm paying for this car and i'm not going to spend my hard-earned money on a car i don't want to drive. this car has power, they engines run strong well over 100,000 miles and it still gets over 20 mpg combined driving." also, for a point of reference, my insurance only went up $50 from switching from my 1995 V6 firebird to my 2001 V8 firebird, so tell him insurance isn't a big issue. it won't be much more expensive than if you buy a V6 car.

now, if you're spoiled and your parents are buying you the car, be happy you're getting ANYTHING at all!!!

Firebirdfan

Dammit, you posted when I was typing. Here's how the buying process might work.

1) We trade the Pontiac Montana van in for about 9k-10k.
2) We put that money towards the LS1.
3) We try to get them to come down about a grand on the LS1.
4) I pay 1/2 the difference of the trade in and price of the LS1 up front.
5) I take a loan out for the other half and have a car payment for about a year.
6) I establish credit for myself, get the car I want, my bro gets my Accord when he starts driving, everybody's happy.
7) THE END.

Ideally, this is what would happen. All in all, I'd end up paying anywhere from 3k-4k for the car.

Black01M6SS

iTrader: (3)

I remember when I was 17 wanting to trade my truck in for an LS1. My grandmother agreed to help me get a newer more reliable car. I really wanted to get a Corvette but she basically told me I was out of my mind because insurance would be way to high even though from what I read its cheaper for a Vette than an F-body. My next choice was a Trans Am but she wouldn't help me get that either because Pontiac's were "unreliable cheeply built cars". My next and last choice for an LS1 was the Camaro. She agreed to the Camaro because it was made by Chevy and my grandpaw always drove Chevy's before he died. I didn't even try to bring up the arguement that the Camaro and Trans Am were the same car except for looks because I thought it might backfire on me.

Yes, my Grandmother bought me the Camaro when I was 17 but I don't even want to hear how lucky I am that I didn't have to work for anything. I started working when I was 15 and by the time I graduated high school I had paid for all the mods I did to my car, a 97 S10, and a 2001 Yamaha R6 without any help.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Here is the deal.

Judging by your statement, my guess is either your parents haven't owned very many cars to base their opinions on, and they are just buying into what mainstream media tells them; or, they've had one or two bad apples cloud their judgement. Guess what..... all the manufacturers make bad apples from time to time.

I've owned 14 cars. Mostly domestics, but a couple were imports. Truth is, the quality gap isn't nearly as big as they think....not even close. And in terms of the new cars GM is producing these days, the quality gap is all but gone, IMO.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Choco, dude, it's finally happened.... we are in total agreement!

Hey, next beer is on me man.

Darksol

First off honda's are very easy to work on. How many have you owned? I've had 3.(86 CRX Si, 95 del Sol Si, 94 del Sol VTEC) all were extremely easy to maintain and work on. Tune up on a honda is a 10 min deal if you can't operated a ratchet. LS1s are at least a hour. However the Ls1s are practiclly bulletproof, and are a large departure from the nightmares associated with the LT1 and its crappy optispark. The more imports out there age the more you'll see them showing up at shops. Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are all well known for going long distance(200k+) but they don't produce enough power in stock form to cause much collateral damage on drivetrain.(with obvious exceptions, Supra comes to mind immediatly) Also how did the insurance only go up $40? Are you on mommys policy? j/k
At worst you get stuck with a car you didn't want but if they are paying for it...DON'T COMPLAIN! No one bought my first car. That was the CRX .
I didn't get the WS6 untill I was 22. At least I was closer to a age that didn't get me killed in a car that was to poweful for my skills. That's something else that kills me. A licence is a privilege not a right. And just becuase you can buy a fast car does not mean you can handle a fast car. I cringe to think about a 18 year old with a couple of beers or a stret grudge match that ends in a death, either the teen(often) or a inocent bystander(the old woman in a Buick that didn't realize you were going 65 in a 35) Think about it this way, I you earn it and work to it, it will mean more in the long run.

SuperSam

iTrader: (7)

It really depends on the condition of the car and who was the previous owner(s). Hell, a car could have been ripped into with a 22 yr old (example) and have 20k miles on it, in comparison to a car that has 75k and was driving by a 40yr old, pure highways miles. So therefore it's the luck of the draw, and the life of the engine.

SladeX

Insurance difference in a import vs domestic is a laugh, if the car isn't super rare and prized, the cost of insurance is the AGE of the driver and the statistical age group of the car to be insured. If the 2 match, the price is HIGH.

Case in point at age 24, 05 Honda Accord = $3200/year, 98 Camaro Z28, $2300/year...

I mentioned to the insurace broker, the 05 is barely 140hp, 4 door and generally a daily driver. The camaro is 2 door, 300hp at the damn wheels and makes most cars on the road stand still.. she says it's because 24 year olds don't drive camaros. They drive accords, civics etc...

the whole quality issue of honda is a sore point on me since I have an 05 accord bought new prior to my 98 camaro. (I had my 88 camaro long befor either of the two).

I'm sorry but I've had issues with brake vibration, interior upholstery falling apart, interior trim coming apart and general design issues.

This was all within the first 2 months of owning it. The adjustment of the side mirror is so far forward that the only way I could hope to reach it is to lean forward thus making a guesstimate if I can see or seat my chair so far forward that the steering wheel will have impaled me long before the air bag gets deployed.

The chairs upholstery just started failling apart one day, both passenger and drivers chairs!

The interior trim fell OFF the damn dash after spending an unusually hot day in the sun. Who the hell attaches **** few with finger nail size pieces of super thin double sided tape???

Brake vibration. This happened after a few months of driving it, but unlike my ls1 car, it rarely gets to see hard braking.

Don't get me started on import vs domestic reliability, freaking tire EXPLODED on the accord last month. It was the rear tire too, not the more abused front tires... The tire shredded too well to be honest it shredded at 60 mph... So this is jap quality... fine selection of tires, adhesive, stitching, brakes...

I'd drive my z28 100 miles to a track, run 13's all day, and drive back home... all on the same tank of gas... that's the trust in the reliability of my z28...

BREAKPARTS

tell your parents if you get an import you will be exited to put on a spoiler wing and streetrace it every where cuz rice rockets are whippin d's on mc donalds trays nowadays and thats the **** to do plus the v8 is a much heavier car and cant go that fast anyways plus mom they have governors and cant go past 100mph.aaaaand ill hang out with my lil brother moreITS ******* BULLET PROOF GIVE THIS ONE A TRY!!!

bob320fa

Wow..........I'm still trying to figure out how someone's parents will drop $13,000 on any kind of car. Not everyone is that fortunate. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth

Firebirdfan

For the last time, THEY ARE NOT BUYING THE CAR! We will probably trade the montana in and use the trade in money to pay off a lot of the car. I will pay the difference!!!

Charging TA

I wouldnt let people who dont know much about cars convince you on what car to buy...

staringback05

iTrader: (8)

like guys are saying if your parents are helping you out with YOUR car, then you cant say much....you could get a job pay all of the car, and ignore what they say

Smoke Panther

iTrader: (10)

sounds like he's a minor, so even if he saved up 13k, his parents could still stop him. Until he's 18, he doesn't have any legal property...including money he makes

ChocoTaco369

yes. why should i pay 2 grand in NJ to get liability insurance when i can get on my mom's plan for $1200 for full coverage?

i still woulda done it same car, same company