Granatelli Plug wires over 15 rwhp gain??
03-29-2011, 06:37 PM
#362
On The Tree
Ok. I just got off the phone with my tuner in cincinnati. The test would be performed at Cincy Speed. My car is full bolt-ons LS1, H/I/C. I can have multiple free dyno pulls, on video, before and after...to determine if this is a hoax or if it's true. Link to the $105 plugs? I really don't want to waste $105...how about if it doesn't do more than 5whp gain I have the option to return them? You have nothing to lose by being part of this experiment. PM please so my email will be notified.
-Tony
p.s. I watched your videos and they are convincing, however I'm a skeptic at heart. I personally would be excited if they worked like you claim, as I am all about milking the most power from my setup that I can.
-Tony
p.s. I watched your videos and they are convincing, however I'm a skeptic at heart. I personally would be excited if they worked like you claim, as I am all about milking the most power from my setup that I can.
But come on honestly if there was a single upgrade that cost less than $120.00 even on average net 8-12 HP it would be the product of the year, the talk of the town, covered on every HP TV show, in every Mag, and these wires are far from that.
Im not saying they are bad wires, they incorporate some nice technology and 0 ohm drop is very impressive but its not going to net the claimed HP.
If you really believe that these wires can net you the GMS claimed HP then you probibly also believe that this little pill can increase your ***** size overnight as well.
Im not saying they are bad wires, they incorporate some nice technology and 0 ohm drop is very impressive but its not going to net the claimed HP.
If you really believe that these wires can net you the GMS claimed HP then you probibly also believe that this little pill can increase your ***** size overnight as well.
http://forums.gmhightechperformance....ion/index.html
"LOW-RESISTANCE" SPIRAL WIRES
By far the most popular conductor used in ignition wires destined for race and performance street engines are spiral conductors (a.k.a. mag, pro, super, spiral, monel, heli, energy, ferro, twin core etc.). Spiral conductors are constructed by winding fine wire around a core. Almost all manufacturers use constructions which reduce production costs in an endeavor to offer ignition component marketers and mass-merchandisers cheaper prices than those of their competitors.
In the USA in particular, most marketers of performance parts selling their products through mass-merchandisers and speed shops include a variety of very effective high-output ignition systems together with a branded not-so-effective ignition wire line using a spiral conductor. Most perpetually try to out-do their competitors by offering spiral conductor ignition wires with the lowest electrical resistance. Some publish results which show their wires are superior to a competitor's wires which use identical cable (on which another brand name is printed). The published "low" resistance (per foot) is measured with a test ohmmeter's 1 volt direct current (DC) passing through the entire length of the fine wire used for the spiral conductor.
"Low-resistance" conductors are an easy sell, as most people associate all ignition wire conductors with original equipment and replacement ignition wire carbon conductors (which progressively fail as a result of microscopic carbon granules burning away and thus reducing the spark energy to the spark plugs) and with solid wire zero-resistance conductors that were used by racers with no need for suppression. Consumers are easily led into believing that if a spiral conductor's resistance is almost zero, its performance must be similar to that of a solid metal conductor all race cars once used. HOWEVER, NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
What is not generally understood (or is ignored) is that as a result of the laws of electricity, the potential 45,000 plus volts (with alternating current characteristics) from the ignition coil (a pulse type transformer) does not flow through the entire the length of fine wire used for a spiral conductor like the 1 volt DC voltage from a test ohmmeter, but flows in a magnetic field surrounding the outermost surface of the spiral windings (skin effect). The same skin effect applies equally to the same pulsating flow of current passing through carbon and solid metal conductors.
A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI.
Of course, ignition wire manufacturers save a considerable amount in manufacturing costs by using less fine wire, less exotic winding machinery and less expertise to make low-resistance spiral conductors. As an incentive, they find a lucrative market amongst performance parts marketers who advertise their branded ignition wires as having "low-resistance" conductors, despite the fact that such "low-resistance" contributes nothing to make spiral ignition wires perform better, and RFI and EMI suppression is compromised.
In recent years, most ignition wire manufacturers, to temporarily improve their spiral conductor's suppression, have resorted to coating excessively spaced spiral windings, most of which are crudely wound around strands of fiberglass or Kevlar, with a heavy layer of high-resistance carbon impregnated conductive latex or silicone compound. This type of construction hides the conductive coating's high resistance when the overall conductor is measured with a test ohmmeter, which only measures the lower resistance of the sparse spirally wound wire (the path of least resistance) under the conductive coating and ignores the high resistance of the outermost conductive coating in which the spark energy actually travels. The conductive coating is rarely shown or mentioned in advertisement illustrations.
The suppression achieved by this practice of coating the windings is only temporary, as the spark current is forced to travel through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating in the same manner the spark current travels through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating of a carbon conductor used in most original equipment and stock replacement wires.
In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor.
Unfortunately, and particularly with the use of high-output ignitions, the outermost high-resistance conductive coating over spiral windings acting as the conductor will fail from burn out in the same manner as carbon conductors, and although in most cases, the spiral conductor will not cease to conduct like a high-resistance carbon conductor, any RFI or EMI suppression will be lost as a consequence of the coating burning out. The worst interference will come from the so-called "super conductors" that are wound with copper (alloy) wire.
However, despite the shortcomings of "low-resistance" spiral conductor ignition wires, these wires work satisfactorily on older production vehicles and race vehicles that do not rely on electronic engine management systems, or use on-board electronics effected by EMI — although with the lowest-resistance conductor wires, don't expect much RFI suppression on the AM band in poor reception areas.
Some European and Japanese original equipment and replacement ignition wires including Bougicord and NGK do have spiral conductors that provide good suppression — usually none of these wires are promoted as having low- resistance conductors — however, none are ideal for competition use, as their conductors and pin-type terminations are fragile and are known to rarely last as long as good carbon conductor ignition wires.
To be effective in carrying the full output from the ignition system and suppressing RFI and EMI in particular, spiral conductors need windings that are microscopically close to one another and precisely spaced and free from conductive coatings. To be more effective, the windings need to be wound over a core of magnetic material — a method too costly for wires sold through mass-merchandisers and most speed shops who purchase only the cheapest (to them) and most heavily promoted products.
Claims of Horsepower Gain
Every brand of spiral conductor ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower. Independent tests, including a test performed by Circle Track Magazine (see May, 1996 issue) in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.
"LOW-RESISTANCE" SPIRAL WIRES
By far the most popular conductor used in ignition wires destined for race and performance street engines are spiral conductors (a.k.a. mag, pro, super, spiral, monel, heli, energy, ferro, twin core etc.). Spiral conductors are constructed by winding fine wire around a core. Almost all manufacturers use constructions which reduce production costs in an endeavor to offer ignition component marketers and mass-merchandisers cheaper prices than those of their competitors.
In the USA in particular, most marketers of performance parts selling their products through mass-merchandisers and speed shops include a variety of very effective high-output ignition systems together with a branded not-so-effective ignition wire line using a spiral conductor. Most perpetually try to out-do their competitors by offering spiral conductor ignition wires with the lowest electrical resistance. Some publish results which show their wires are superior to a competitor's wires which use identical cable (on which another brand name is printed). The published "low" resistance (per foot) is measured with a test ohmmeter's 1 volt direct current (DC) passing through the entire length of the fine wire used for the spiral conductor.
"Low-resistance" conductors are an easy sell, as most people associate all ignition wire conductors with original equipment and replacement ignition wire carbon conductors (which progressively fail as a result of microscopic carbon granules burning away and thus reducing the spark energy to the spark plugs) and with solid wire zero-resistance conductors that were used by racers with no need for suppression. Consumers are easily led into believing that if a spiral conductor's resistance is almost zero, its performance must be similar to that of a solid metal conductor all race cars once used. HOWEVER, NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
What is not generally understood (or is ignored) is that as a result of the laws of electricity, the potential 45,000 plus volts (with alternating current characteristics) from the ignition coil (a pulse type transformer) does not flow through the entire the length of fine wire used for a spiral conductor like the 1 volt DC voltage from a test ohmmeter, but flows in a magnetic field surrounding the outermost surface of the spiral windings (skin effect). The same skin effect applies equally to the same pulsating flow of current passing through carbon and solid metal conductors.
A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI.
Of course, ignition wire manufacturers save a considerable amount in manufacturing costs by using less fine wire, less exotic winding machinery and less expertise to make low-resistance spiral conductors. As an incentive, they find a lucrative market amongst performance parts marketers who advertise their branded ignition wires as having "low-resistance" conductors, despite the fact that such "low-resistance" contributes nothing to make spiral ignition wires perform better, and RFI and EMI suppression is compromised.
In recent years, most ignition wire manufacturers, to temporarily improve their spiral conductor's suppression, have resorted to coating excessively spaced spiral windings, most of which are crudely wound around strands of fiberglass or Kevlar, with a heavy layer of high-resistance carbon impregnated conductive latex or silicone compound. This type of construction hides the conductive coating's high resistance when the overall conductor is measured with a test ohmmeter, which only measures the lower resistance of the sparse spirally wound wire (the path of least resistance) under the conductive coating and ignores the high resistance of the outermost conductive coating in which the spark energy actually travels. The conductive coating is rarely shown or mentioned in advertisement illustrations.
The suppression achieved by this practice of coating the windings is only temporary, as the spark current is forced to travel through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating in the same manner the spark current travels through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating of a carbon conductor used in most original equipment and stock replacement wires.
In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor.
Unfortunately, and particularly with the use of high-output ignitions, the outermost high-resistance conductive coating over spiral windings acting as the conductor will fail from burn out in the same manner as carbon conductors, and although in most cases, the spiral conductor will not cease to conduct like a high-resistance carbon conductor, any RFI or EMI suppression will be lost as a consequence of the coating burning out. The worst interference will come from the so-called "super conductors" that are wound with copper (alloy) wire.
However, despite the shortcomings of "low-resistance" spiral conductor ignition wires, these wires work satisfactorily on older production vehicles and race vehicles that do not rely on electronic engine management systems, or use on-board electronics effected by EMI — although with the lowest-resistance conductor wires, don't expect much RFI suppression on the AM band in poor reception areas.
Some European and Japanese original equipment and replacement ignition wires including Bougicord and NGK do have spiral conductors that provide good suppression — usually none of these wires are promoted as having low- resistance conductors — however, none are ideal for competition use, as their conductors and pin-type terminations are fragile and are known to rarely last as long as good carbon conductor ignition wires.
To be effective in carrying the full output from the ignition system and suppressing RFI and EMI in particular, spiral conductors need windings that are microscopically close to one another and precisely spaced and free from conductive coatings. To be more effective, the windings need to be wound over a core of magnetic material — a method too costly for wires sold through mass-merchandisers and most speed shops who purchase only the cheapest (to them) and most heavily promoted products.
Claims of Horsepower Gain
Every brand of spiral conductor ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower. Independent tests, including a test performed by Circle Track Magazine (see May, 1996 issue) in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.
03-29-2011, 09:47 PM
#366
So giving members a price for them,and having a link to the company website and a description of items that they sell in the sig,is a part of defending HIS products ? Read the non sponsor policy in stickies. Because he was a previous vendor? poor excuse
03-29-2011, 10:41 PM
#368
On The Tree
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This thread truly shows how naive some people are when spending their money. An OEM wire, much less an aftermarket, when in good condition already carries more spark energy to the plug than is needed to ignite the combustion process. If you think that carrying an extra X amount of volts of energy to the plug, when you already have more than what is needed to jump the gap and start the combustion process, will net you more power...to put it bluntly you're a F***ing moron. All you are doing is wasting energy and money. That's what is in question here. Hell, do you honestly think with the govt. cracking down on the car manufacturers like they are about gas mileage, that they would leave such easy power on the table? Hell, Delphi Packard, the same folks that make all the plugs/wire harness crap on your cars makes the high performance wires for Nascar, NHRA, etc...and yet you guys think that some self proclaimed genius who is the laughing stock of the racing world has figured out a magic way to create power out of thin air. That's what it amounts too, wasted energy=more power in the eyes of those that believe this crock of ****. The stupidity seen here makes many of us 
, and that's why we're posting, not to trash someone but save you guys from wasting money. If you want well made wires that are easy on the eyes and will last, then by all means buy a aftermarket wire for that reason...but don't buy them because you actually think they will make more power because it's ludicrous.
, and that's why we're posting, not to trash someone but save you guys from wasting money. If you want well made wires that are easy on the eyes and will last, then by all means buy a aftermarket wire for that reason...but don't buy them because you actually think they will make more power because it's ludicrous.
03-30-2011, 01:28 AM
#369
Four pulls then the wire swap then four pulls again. Try to get a tech tool on it during the pulls to confirm the engine/water temperature is the same or close to the same for all pulls. This will reduce any power differences between pulls.
Guys, I'm thinking the ferrite ring may be doing something to the voltage pulse that wires without the ring can't.
Have any of you ever seen the arc from a MSD system with their blaster coil? It's like a bolt of lightning compared to what a stock system can do (I'm talking about old school distributor type systems). Some of you here have said that the spark in the plug can't add any power regardless of spark power. I'd say the bigger and badder the spark is, the more completely lit the air/fuel charge gets resulting in better power production.
If the Granatelli wires somehow increase the arc strength, it will better light the fire.
03-30-2011, 07:19 AM
#370
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there is a money back guarantee I'm pretty sure Gran mentioned. So you could goto the track, make a couple runs...put the wires on, make a couple more and see for yourself if there are any changes. Obviously nothing Gran does will be acceptable and videos of dynos or anyone else's dyno results wont matter because if you've already decided anyone who gets positive results is a F'ing idiot then they obviously can't have their car dyno'd with any sort of scientific accuracy (not that a dyno is accurate anyway). So the only option is to try them and return them if it's BS.
It's that kind of prejudice that really doesn't help anyone. In this case you're not saving anyone from being stupid. They can return the product and aren't stuck with a 160 dollar mistake.
And I dont think we would get to grill and have any sort of vetting of a product like has been done in this thread with a sponsor. So the idea that it somehow runs afoul of the rules governing sponsor and non-sponsor i think is a joke. If it turns out that the thread can be considered a non-sponsor advertisement for their product it's only as a side-effect of actually failing to prove that they dont do what Gran says. That's all.
It's that kind of prejudice that really doesn't help anyone. In this case you're not saving anyone from being stupid. They can return the product and aren't stuck with a 160 dollar mistake.
And I dont think we would get to grill and have any sort of vetting of a product like has been done in this thread with a sponsor. So the idea that it somehow runs afoul of the rules governing sponsor and non-sponsor i think is a joke. If it turns out that the thread can be considered a non-sponsor advertisement for their product it's only as a side-effect of actually failing to prove that they dont do what Gran says. That's all.
03-30-2011, 07:54 AM
#371
"Independent tests, in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower"
...NO ignition wires that claim an increase in HP were found to add any HP.
Atleast we have a member now that is willing to get the GMS wires and video his car at the Dyno. We will truly see.
GMS you say that you offer a money back guarantee but you clearly state on your site:
"No returns on special orders, electrical items or after 90 days from date of original shipment."
Are wires not electrical items??
And:
"All returns may be subject to a restocking fee of up to 25%"
So if we are not satisfied with the "performance" of your wires you are going to waive the "No returns on electrical items" and the "up to 25% restocking fee" all together?
I have seen other post where the person did not like the wires and GMS hit them with a restocking fee. I just want to be clear on your money back for those who may go out and get these wires due to the discussion here.
03-30-2011, 09:27 AM
#373
TECH Apprentice
Just wanna let you guys know i have ordered my set of custom length wires from granatelli, hoping ot have them in a week or so (live in Australia).
Also ordered the coils.
My engine will be back in the car mid next week so i'll be running it in on my MSD's that i have then once i have ran it in, over to the dyno and i will video tape MSD vs firecore50 vs granatelli and then also with his coils.
Now i do want to say before i do this that the MSD wires i crimped myself are pretty low in ohms already but do not have much in the way of ferrite for RFI/EMI interferance.
So i think there will be a gain but im not sure, cause im not comparing stock GM wires here with 400-800ohms im comparing MSD to granatelli's.
I do think a good gain can be made as i do have custom length leads the ohms in each lead are all different so this would be a slightly different spark happening in each cylinder.
I will also use my multimeter on the granatelli wires for you all.
Here were the ohm readings again that i had for MSD and firecore50
remember firecore does have ferrite and MSD i dotn think they do, can anyone confirm about the ferrite?
Also ordered the coils.
My engine will be back in the car mid next week so i'll be running it in on my MSD's that i have then once i have ran it in, over to the dyno and i will video tape MSD vs firecore50 vs granatelli and then also with his coils.
Now i do want to say before i do this that the MSD wires i crimped myself are pretty low in ohms already but do not have much in the way of ferrite for RFI/EMI interferance.
So i think there will be a gain but im not sure, cause im not comparing stock GM wires here with 400-800ohms im comparing MSD to granatelli's.
I do think a good gain can be made as i do have custom length leads the ohms in each lead are all different so this would be a slightly different spark happening in each cylinder.
I will also use my multimeter on the granatelli wires for you all.
Here were the ohm readings again that i had for MSD and firecore50
remember firecore does have ferrite and MSD i dotn think they do, can anyone confirm about the ferrite?
Update:
We got 2 sets of firecore 50 wires in last week.
1 for me, 1 for my mate.
My car is is getting work done so i couldn't test my wires or engine.
We tested the wires on my mates car LS3 standard wires came in at 430ohms
firecore50 wires came in at 38-39ohms awesome result, we drove it the AFR's changed, all good they work great!
My wires custom length.
Now these are all within what firecore50 claims in ohms but i figured and so did firecore50 that my MSD wires that i crimpped myself were obviously ******* in ohms than FC50 but this was not the case....
Firecore50 claim 50ohms per foot.
so let me do the figures.
1ft = 304.8mm
1- 460mm MSD- 49.3ohm FC-69.3 ---- 50hms per ft=75.45
2- 560mm MSD- 63.4ohm FC-90.3 ---- 50hms per ft= 91.86
3- 660mm MSD-82.2ohm FC-105.5 ---- 50hms per ft=108.2
4- 760mm MSD- 90.6 FC-115.3 ---- 50hms per ft=124.6
5- 560mm MSD-65.4ohm FC-82.4 ---- 50hms per ft=91.86
6- 700mm MSD-84.2ohm FC-104.5 ---- 50hms per ft=114.8
7- 800mm MSD-99ohm FC-121.7 ---- 50hms per ft=131.2
8- 850mm MSD-103.1 FC-130.5 ---- 50hms per ft=139.4
So based on these figures yes they are all just less than 50ohms per foot but no where near as good as the MSD i made myself!
Still going to by the granatelli's and hopeing to have 0ohms or under 2ohms like the video in my custom length.
not the happiest of days, probably should have done an ohm reading on my MSD i made myself before buying the firecore50's.
We got 2 sets of firecore 50 wires in last week.
1 for me, 1 for my mate.
My car is is getting work done so i couldn't test my wires or engine.
We tested the wires on my mates car LS3 standard wires came in at 430ohms
firecore50 wires came in at 38-39ohms awesome result, we drove it the AFR's changed, all good they work great!
My wires custom length.
Now these are all within what firecore50 claims in ohms but i figured and so did firecore50 that my MSD wires that i crimpped myself were obviously ******* in ohms than FC50 but this was not the case....
Firecore50 claim 50ohms per foot.
so let me do the figures.
1ft = 304.8mm
1- 460mm MSD- 49.3ohm FC-69.3 ---- 50hms per ft=75.45
2- 560mm MSD- 63.4ohm FC-90.3 ---- 50hms per ft= 91.86
3- 660mm MSD-82.2ohm FC-105.5 ---- 50hms per ft=108.2
4- 760mm MSD- 90.6 FC-115.3 ---- 50hms per ft=124.6
5- 560mm MSD-65.4ohm FC-82.4 ---- 50hms per ft=91.86
6- 700mm MSD-84.2ohm FC-104.5 ---- 50hms per ft=114.8
7- 800mm MSD-99ohm FC-121.7 ---- 50hms per ft=131.2
8- 850mm MSD-103.1 FC-130.5 ---- 50hms per ft=139.4
So based on these figures yes they are all just less than 50ohms per foot but no where near as good as the MSD i made myself!
Still going to by the granatelli's and hopeing to have 0ohms or under 2ohms like the video in my custom length.
not the happiest of days, probably should have done an ohm reading on my MSD i made myself before buying the firecore50's.
03-30-2011, 09:29 AM
#374
On The Tree
Granatelli has supported LS1Tech for many years
The answer that has been posted like 3 or 4 times now is still the same.
a. I did not start the post
b. I am merely addressing all the others questions
c. I only respond I do not create more content
d. I was asked to come here and address these questions
e. I was asked to produce the video shorts to better explain
f. I don't continue to push the product - I continue to support and explain the same questions posed 50 different ways
g. In the form of a question - Why is it when sponsors come here they are considered to get special treatment and therefore there is some how less merit in their words and when a non sponsor comes rather then focus on the topic when they run out of things to argue about - they revert back to "You are not a sponsor, but you continue to push your product on this forum, how? And why does this continue?
This thread truly shows how naive some people are when spending their money. An OEM wire, much less an aftermarket, when in good condition already carries more spark energy to the plug than is needed to ignite the combustion process. If you think that carrying an extra X amount of volts of energy to the plug, when you already have more than what is needed to jump the gap and start the combustion process, will net you more power...to put it bluntly you're a F***ing moron. All you are doing is wasting energy and money. That's what is in question here. Hell, do you honestly think with the govt. cracking down on the car manufacturers like they are about gas mileage, that they would leave such easy power on the table? Hell, Delphi Packard, the same folks that make all the plugs/wire harness crap on your cars makes the high performance wires for Nascar, NHRA, etc...and yet you guys think that some self proclaimed genius has figured out a magic way to create power out of thin air.
Delphi does not make Ignition cable but yes Packard does. Packard make the wire for many after market companies as well. But not us. Let me make this point clear to everyone there is no magic in our spark plug wires (ignition cables) it is solid core stainless wires ignition cable that can be purchased at most hi perf speed shops. What makes our product unique it that we have a patented way of using Solid Core Cable with no RFI or EMI emetines.
EVERYONE agrees to lower the ohm drop the better the part – your point should be simply so what you don’t need it. If you just stick to that you could win votes. Thanks for loosing focus and bashing Granatelli. As for NASCAR and NHRA at a pro level, I am willing to bet that there are more team running Granatelli cable than Delphi/Packard as you put it.
I am not a self proclaimed expert by any stretch of the imagination either.
" ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower."
"Independent tests, in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower"
...NO ignition wires that claim an increase in HP were found to add any HP.
Atleast we have a member now that is willing to get the GMS wires and video his car at the Dyno. We will truly see.
"Independent tests, in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower"
...NO ignition wires that claim an increase in HP were found to add any HP.
Atleast we have a member now that is willing to get the GMS wires and video his car at the Dyno. We will truly see.
GMS you say that you offer a money back guarantee but you clearly state on your site:
"No returns on special orders, electrical items or after 90 days from date of original shipment."
Are wires not electrical items??
And:
"All returns may be subject to a restocking fee of up to 25%"
So if we are not satisfied with the "performance" of your wires you are going to waive the "No returns on electrical items" and the "up to 25% restocking fee" all together?
I have seen other post where the person did not like the wires and GMS hit them with a restocking fee. I just want to be clear on your money back for those who may go out and get these wires due to the discussion here.
"No returns on special orders, electrical items or after 90 days from date of original shipment."
Are wires not electrical items??
And:
"All returns may be subject to a restocking fee of up to 25%"
So if we are not satisfied with the "performance" of your wires you are going to waive the "No returns on electrical items" and the "up to 25% restocking fee" all together?
I have seen other post where the person did not like the wires and GMS hit them with a restocking fee. I just want to be clear on your money back for those who may go out and get these wires due to the discussion here.
We have made it clear - There is a money back Promise on the wires in the first 90 days. That means if you are not 100% satisfied send it back and you get a full refund - after 90 days they have a lifetime warranty - if they fail we will replace them. Naturally I can't refund 100% on 1 year old wires - people would be send them back years lator just looking for a new free set
03-30-2011, 10:03 AM
#375
Actually it did...
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
...NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.
Then you should update your site to refect that. Wires cary a 90 day no worry 100% money back with NO restocking fee.
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
...NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.
Then you should update your site to refect that. Wires cary a 90 day no worry 100% money back with NO restocking fee.
03-30-2011, 10:04 AM
#376
You are fishing
We have made it clear - There is a money back Promise on the wires in the first 90 days. That means if you are not 100% satisfied send it back and you get a full refund - after 90 days they have a lifetime warranty - if they fail we will replace them. Naturally I can't refund 100% on 1 year old wires - people would be send them back years lator just looking for a new free set
We have made it clear - There is a money back Promise on the wires in the first 90 days. That means if you are not 100% satisfied send it back and you get a full refund - after 90 days they have a lifetime warranty - if they fail we will replace them. Naturally I can't refund 100% on 1 year old wires - people would be send them back years lator just looking for a new free set
It suckes when you did the independent test on the Magnecore wires how much of a drop there was
I was told on my Jeep Forums that the magnecore wires were "top of the line" wires when you proved they had like what, 1600 ohm drop 
So do you think my Jeep is being "starved" power using the Magnecore wires?
03-30-2011, 10:10 AM
#377
It just proves that everyone believes that their wire is better than the other.
Email MSD ask them about GMS wire claims, or ask them about Magnecor wires, or call Magnecor and ask them about msd or GMS..they will all give some reason why theris are better than the other.
But only one on them claims HP gains... that is the discussion.
I'm very glad that we have some members here ready and willing to put this to the test.
Also if these were as good as they claim why are they not discussed at ALL on Yellow Bullet, there are some hard core racers there... maybe we should open up a thread there and ask them.
Email MSD ask them about GMS wire claims, or ask them about Magnecor wires, or call Magnecor and ask them about msd or GMS..they will all give some reason why theris are better than the other.
But only one on them claims HP gains... that is the discussion.
I'm very glad that we have some members here ready and willing to put this to the test.
Also if these were as good as they claim why are they not discussed at ALL on Yellow Bullet, there are some hard core racers there... maybe we should open up a thread there and ask them.
03-30-2011, 11:19 AM
#378
On The Tree
Where's the LIKE BUTTON
It suckes when you did the independent test on the Magnecore wires how much of a drop there was I was told on my Jeep Forums that the magnecore wires were "top of the line" wires when you proved they had like what, 1600 ohm drop
So do you think my Jeep is being "starved" power using the Magnecore wires?
It suckes when you did the independent test on the Magnecore wires how much of a drop there was
I was told on my Jeep Forums that the magnecore wires were "top of the line" wires when you proved they had like what, 1600 ohm drop So do you think my Jeep is being "starved" power using the Magnecore wires?
from the link:
CARBON (SUPPRESSION) CONDUCTORS
Carbon conductors are used in original equipment ignition wires by most vehicle manufacturers, and in the majority of stock replacement wires. This style of ignition wire is cheap to manufacture and generally provides good suppression for both RFI (radio frequency interference) and EMI (electromagnetic interference). Conductor usually consists of a substrate of fiberglass and/or Kevlar over which high-resistance conductive latex or silicone is coated, and functions by reducing spark current (by resistance) to provide suppression — a job it does well while the conductor lasts. Vehicle manufacturers treat ignition wires as service items to be replaced regularly, and limited life is never an issue. This type of conductor quickly fails (burns out) if a high-powered aftermarket ignition system is used.
SOLID CORE CONDUCTOR WIRES
Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires are still used in racing on carbureted engines, but can cause all sorts of running problems if used on vehicles with electronic ignition, fuel injection and engine management systems, particularly if vehicle is driven on the street — and damage to some original equipment and modern aftermarket electronic ignition and engine management systems can occur. Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires.
This statement by them is wrong - GMS has no current reducing resistors at either end of the wires
From your link - horsepower gained by the use of Race Wires results entirely from the ability of the wires to maintain full conductance and suppress EMI that previously robbed the engine of horsepower.
That is what we are doing - Thanks for helping my cause
03-30-2011, 11:31 AM
#379
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I think most of them say they increase performance, but none will quote you any numbers so none of them have to back up anything or be called out for lying.
only Gran does and so far just keeps producing evidence that they're not lying.
It sounds like what happens is that the wire allows more current to flow since the coil voltage doesn't have to go as high in order for the spark plug voltage to reach ionization level. This would be due to the much lower resistance in the wire. The higher current allows the spark plug to create a bigger fire kernel resulting in combustion that effectively advances your timing without having to actually advance your timing. Non-solid core wires will cause the coils to have to ramp their voltage up to make up for the lost voltage in the wire and thus they would have less current available (electrical energy being conserved means the power in is the power out, if you increase voltage you have to decrease current and vice-versa. Lower resistance wires means the coils dont have to reach as high a voltage and so would have more current available and the current creates the fireball, the voltage just creates the circuit).
only Gran does and so far just keeps producing evidence that they're not lying.
It sounds like what happens is that the wire allows more current to flow since the coil voltage doesn't have to go as high in order for the spark plug voltage to reach ionization level. This would be due to the much lower resistance in the wire. The higher current allows the spark plug to create a bigger fire kernel resulting in combustion that effectively advances your timing without having to actually advance your timing. Non-solid core wires will cause the coils to have to ramp their voltage up to make up for the lost voltage in the wire and thus they would have less current available (electrical energy being conserved means the power in is the power out, if you increase voltage you have to decrease current and vice-versa. Lower resistance wires means the coils dont have to reach as high a voltage and so would have more current available and the current creates the fireball, the voltage just creates the circuit).
03-30-2011, 01:09 PM
#380
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Something yall might want to do, probably some have, but look at many other sources, even simply google "hp gains from spark plug wires" if you will and see what you find. Everyone knows that truth and credibility comes from much reliable and multiple sources of information or non-varying results. If something is good, it doesn't take long for people to catch on, if something is bad-same thing. As far as I know, these wires have been out for sometime now and are not a new product or research.
You guys can see for yourselves what you find, i personally didn't find much supporting information at all, if anything, most all of it still states no hp gains for spark plug wires, if any gains are to be held they would be very minimal if anything. Research how a spark plug wire works and the truth lies there as well.
Another interesting thing. Go look for "chips" for our cars on eBay or something. Some of them claim some pretty nice gains and such. They have something usually that's different of their products than all the others, say that this is what makes them different and it works because of that, have money back guarantees, ect. I dunno, maybe I should get one and try it out and see if I can get 50hp or w/e but it's not worth the ten bucks just because you don't hear everyone doing that instead of intake and exhaust upgrades which cost much more than ten bucks. Just an extreme case of why people can and should be skeptical sometimes.
Again, this isn't scientific or absolute fact, but it is logical. That may however be just my opinion on what is logical but you guys can decided for yourselves, just something to think about perhaps. We all have heard the "if Somethings too good to be true... well each time I drive my car that theory shoots to ****
but in alot of cases this is true. That's why I believe it's logical to be skeptical about something like this and may take alot to prove it's actually true. So when people get agitated or such about others demanding more and more proof until their happy, well the same would be for any "too good to be true" or hard to believe deal. There does seem to be some "jabs" at gran, or people just wanting more an more proof and being demanding but it should be expected. If his wires prove or his answers to ALL (reasonable) questions we have they can shoot these down in a heartbeat and eventually it will be an accepted truth. No one has to worry and the honest, hard working company gets the rewards of their labor and we get a great product. . This is why I believe personally it's ok to "put a company to the test" and maybe be a little demanding or pushy and expect a lot of proof. This ain't no going to the moon sort of situation, it should be easily demonstrated or replicated time and time again for each scenario or individual.
People and businesses have to earn their reputations somehow and while it may be a lot of work or seem unfair, if it's worth it, it will usually pay off. One thing I don't really understand gran is why you don't see or expect all of this or do you? I don't think it's too unreasonable for all these "non believers" you are going have to persuade, do you?
Sorry guys, I'll have to edit that my phone might have messed it up a little
You guys can see for yourselves what you find, i personally didn't find much supporting information at all, if anything, most all of it still states no hp gains for spark plug wires, if any gains are to be held they would be very minimal if anything. Research how a spark plug wire works and the truth lies there as well.
Another interesting thing. Go look for "chips" for our cars on eBay or something. Some of them claim some pretty nice gains and such. They have something usually that's different of their products than all the others, say that this is what makes them different and it works because of that, have money back guarantees, ect. I dunno, maybe I should get one and try it out and see if I can get 50hp or w/e but it's not worth the ten bucks just because you don't hear everyone doing that instead of intake and exhaust upgrades which cost much more than ten bucks. Just an extreme case of why people can and should be skeptical sometimes.
Again, this isn't scientific or absolute fact, but it is logical. That may however be just my opinion on what is logical but you guys can decided for yourselves, just something to think about perhaps. We all have heard the "if Somethings too good to be true... well each time I drive my car that theory shoots to ****
but in alot of cases this is true. That's why I believe it's logical to be skeptical about something like this and may take alot to prove it's actually true. So when people get agitated or such about others demanding more and more proof until their happy, well the same would be for any "too good to be true" or hard to believe deal. There does seem to be some "jabs" at gran, or people just wanting more an more proof and being demanding but it should be expected. If his wires prove or his answers to ALL (reasonable) questions we have they can shoot these down in a heartbeat and eventually it will be an accepted truth. No one has to worry and the honest, hard working company gets the rewards of their labor and we get a great product. . This is why I believe personally it's ok to "put a company to the test" and maybe be a little demanding or pushy and expect a lot of proof. This ain't no going to the moon sort of situation, it should be easily demonstrated or replicated time and time again for each scenario or individual. People and businesses have to earn their reputations somehow and while it may be a lot of work or seem unfair, if it's worth it, it will usually pay off. One thing I don't really understand gran is why you don't see or expect all of this or do you? I don't think it's too unreasonable for all these "non believers" you are going have to persuade, do you?
Sorry guys, I'll have to edit that my phone might have messed it up a little