Someone that uses one on a daily baisis in Sac at a big muffler company. From how I understood what he was saying the front rollers still spin whether your running awd or rwd so if the steering wheel turns at all it can get ugly. Youtube has hella awd dyno accidents. Don't kno, don't really care thats just what brodie said.

 

I would like to see these wires tested by an independent person/shop, with just an engine dyno in a controlled environment.
Take a normal LSX, put it on an engine dyno. Get it up to temp, make 3 pulls with the stock wires, msd wires then the GMS wires. Then let’s see what happens.
I have seen way to may chasse dynos post up varying numbers between pulls with no changes to anything make gains, too much that can effect it for a claim of that amount.
Hell a 05 Z06 swapping a stock intake to a FAST 102 makes @ 20HP. Just wires making that I really don’t think so.
I believe that an engine dyno in a controlled room would give more accurate results.

 

^ I can see variations from pull to pull, but not a 20hp variance. I may be a bit of a bench-racer, but I gauge most of what I buy on either Flow numbers, reviews and feedbacks, and DYNO GAINS.




If they turn out to be a reliable wire that lasts through a couple plug changes, I'll get em.

 

i thought i read somewhere in the thread that an independent source already tested the wires. which is why this thread was created in the first place. a magazine reported gains and b/s was called.

 

A magazine that benefits from product advertising is not an independent test IMO.

Who here rushed out to buy E3 spark plugs based on the show HPTV on Spike's Power Block did? They picked up ~8hp on an engine dyno pull during their E3 commercia...er episode.

Anyone remember Splitfire plugs?

If I had an extra $100 laying around I would buy a set and take them to the track. 3 passes on MSD wires (well 1 wire is OEM replacement...I burned up 1 MSD lol) and then 3 passes on Granatelli wires. I could even do it all OEM replacements instead since I have a set.

Correct all 6 passes for DA at the time of each pass and see what MPH I ran with each. Would tell the real story real quick. Either it picks up or it doesn't.

My car is VERY consistent with MPH. I also just purchased a wide band so I could monitor WOT a/f too.

 

^ I actually tried a set of E3's for my DD F150 with a 5.0. I didn't have a problem with them, but I was trying to squeeze EVERY MPG I could out of that thing. I wasn't looking for power. Didn't notice much of a change as far as MPG, but the best I could squeeze out of that little 5.0 on a 4600lb truck was 21mpg HW, which was pretty frickin good for that.

 

I think I will buy the GMS wires soon.. Just wish they cam in red and not baby blue.. That doesn't go with my engine bay

 

100% true, but how many non-profit/no vendor magazines are out there that owners of LS1 powered vehicles can read about these aftermarket parts and believe the review/test/dyno? Without some sort of exposure or advertising, no one would ever hear about new aftermarket parts from vendors except by word of mouth, accidental or while on the hunt for a replacement/upgrade part.

i just thought of a good idea, someone here on this thread that has a close to stock car should run these wires on their car, a before and after test of OEM Vs. GMS wires, if everyone who has responded to this thread donated even 5 bucks to the one person to do the test, that should be more than enough to cover it no? Just an idea. I'm willing to put up 5 bucks lol.

 

page 2 of this very thread... the magazine that did the tests DID NOT benefit financially from running the tests / were not paid by granatelli. they were asked by readers who were skeptical to run the tests for them. basically what's being asked to be done now, was already done.

 

But come on honestly if there was a single upgrade that cost less than $120.00 even on average net 8-12 HP it would be the product of the year, the talk of the town, covered on every HP TV show, in every Mag, and these wires are far from that.

Im not saying they are bad wires, they incorporate some nice technology and 0 ohm drop is very impressive but its not going to net the claimed HP.

If you really believe that these wires can net you the GMS claimed HP then you probibly also believe that this little pill can increase your ***** size overnight as well.

 

it's on everyone if they want to believe granatelli or not. so far, evidence backs up what they say. they released a video doing tests the way everyone wants them to be done, under skeptic's conditions. i'd have an easier time calling if they were shady about proving anything, but they aren't.

joe was more than willing to come here, answer questions about the product, do tests on them, lower the price so people could prove him wrong, and even open the doors of his shop for anyone who wants them installed and wants to see tests done on their own vehicle.

if they just threw numbers at me and presented me with what-if scenarios, i'd raise the flag. but, they've been honest and willing to do what they could to prove their product. to me, that's a good company.

 

I read it all trust me, but apparently it hasnt helped with skepticism and i think if a member of this board did the Vs. Test, all skepticism would cease once and for all... who would you believe, a reader of a magazine who could be anyone--- or a senior member of this board, maybe even someone thats helped you out with your own car at some point??


It was just an idea, no one has to agree or like it.

 

Exactly. These engines have been around since 1997 and most people here will have educated guesses backed by tried and repeatable examples:

$100+ air lid= 8-10hp
$300+ ls6 intake= 8-15hp
$180 UDP= 5-8hp
$300-500 stock 243 heads= 15-20hp
$1000 Fast intake = 10-15hp over ls6
$650+ MSD blaster coil packs= ~0 hp

Until now, I've never heard someone tell a noob to run out and change plug wires as a bang/buck HP mod. Would be quite the oversight if it's true, hence the vast skepticism.

As it sits, we have 1 magazine article and a couple videos by the company who makes the product. All people are asking for is some more evidence than "yeah man the car runs better" or "didn't you see the video the guy selling the stuff posted...it works"

I've seen a lot of infomercials for stuff that works in the videos...

 

http://forums.gmhightechperformance....ion/index.html

"LOW-RESISTANCE" SPIRAL WIRES

By far the most popular conductor used in ignition wires destined for race and performance street engines are spiral conductors (a.k.a. mag, pro, super, spiral, monel, heli, energy, ferro, twin core etc.). Spiral conductors are constructed by winding fine wire around a core. Almost all manufacturers use constructions which reduce production costs in an endeavor to offer ignition component marketers and mass-merchandisers cheaper prices than those of their competitors.

In the USA in particular, most marketers of performance parts selling their products through mass-merchandisers and speed shops include a variety of very effective high-output ignition systems together with a branded not-so-effective ignition wire line using a spiral conductor. Most perpetually try to out-do their competitors by offering spiral conductor ignition wires with the lowest electrical resistance. Some publish results which show their wires are superior to a competitor's wires which use identical cable (on which another brand name is printed). The published "low" resistance (per foot) is measured with a test ohmmeter's 1 volt direct current (DC) passing through the entire length of the fine wire used for the spiral conductor.

"Low-resistance" conductors are an easy sell, as most people associate all ignition wire conductors with original equipment and replacement ignition wire carbon conductors (which progressively fail as a result of microscopic carbon granules burning away and thus reducing the spark energy to the spark plugs) and with solid wire zero-resistance conductors that were used by racers with no need for suppression. Consumers are easily led into believing that if a spiral conductor's resistance is almost zero, its performance must be similar to that of a solid metal conductor all race cars once used. HOWEVER, NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!

What is not generally understood (or is ignored) is that as a result of the laws of electricity, the potential 45,000 plus volts (with alternating current characteristics) from the ignition coil (a pulse type transformer) does not flow through the entire the length of fine wire used for a spiral conductor like the 1 volt DC voltage from a test ohmmeter, but flows in a magnetic field surrounding the outermost surface of the spiral windings (skin effect). The same skin effect applies equally to the same pulsating flow of current passing through carbon and solid metal conductors.

A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI.

Of course, ignition wire manufacturers save a considerable amount in manufacturing costs by using less fine wire, less exotic winding machinery and less expertise to make low-resistance spiral conductors. As an incentive, they find a lucrative market amongst performance parts marketers who advertise their branded ignition wires as having "low-resistance" conductors, despite the fact that such "low-resistance" contributes nothing to make spiral ignition wires perform better, and RFI and EMI suppression is compromised.

In recent years, most ignition wire manufacturers, to temporarily improve their spiral conductor's suppression, have resorted to coating excessively spaced spiral windings, most of which are crudely wound around strands of fiberglass or Kevlar, with a heavy layer of high-resistance carbon impregnated conductive latex or silicone compound. This type of construction hides the conductive coating's high resistance when the overall conductor is measured with a test ohmmeter, which only measures the lower resistance of the sparse spirally wound wire (the path of least resistance) under the conductive coating and ignores the high resistance of the outermost conductive coating in which the spark energy actually travels. The conductive coating is rarely shown or mentioned in advertisement illustrations.

The suppression achieved by this practice of coating the windings is only temporary, as the spark current is forced to travel through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating in the same manner the spark current travels through the outermost high-resistance conductive coating of a carbon conductor used in most original equipment and stock replacement wires.

In effect, (when new) a coated "low-resistance" spiral conductor's true performance is identical to that of a high-resistance carbon conductor.

Unfortunately, and particularly with the use of high-output ignitions, the outermost high-resistance conductive coating over spiral windings acting as the conductor will fail from burn out in the same manner as carbon conductors, and although in most cases, the spiral conductor will not cease to conduct like a high-resistance carbon conductor, any RFI or EMI suppression will be lost as a consequence of the coating burning out. The worst interference will come from the so-called "super conductors" that are wound with copper (alloy) wire.

However, despite the shortcomings of "low-resistance" spiral conductor ignition wires, these wires work satisfactorily on older production vehicles and race vehicles that do not rely on electronic engine management systems, or use on-board electronics effected by EMI — although with the lowest-resistance conductor wires, don't expect much RFI suppression on the AM band in poor reception areas.

Some European and Japanese original equipment and replacement ignition wires including Bougicord and NGK do have spiral conductors that provide good suppression — usually none of these wires are promoted as having low- resistance conductors — however, none are ideal for competition use, as their conductors and pin-type terminations are fragile and are known to rarely last as long as good carbon conductor ignition wires.

To be effective in carrying the full output from the ignition system and suppressing RFI and EMI in particular, spiral conductors need windings that are microscopically close to one another and precisely spaced and free from conductive coatings. To be more effective, the windings need to be wound over a core of magnetic material — a method too costly for wires sold through mass-merchandisers and most speed shops who purchase only the cheapest (to them) and most heavily promoted products.

Claims of Horsepower Gain

Every brand of spiral conductor ignition wires will perform the function of conducting coil output to the spark plugs, but NONE, despite the claims made in advertisements and other promotional literature, will increase horsepower. Independent tests, including a test performed by Circle Track Magazine (see May, 1996 issue) in the USA, show that NO "low-resistance" ignition wires for which a horsepower increase is claimed do in fact increase horsepower - the test also included comparisons with solid metal and carbon conductor ignition wires.

 

Well I just ordered a set. I have a stock 99 TransAm with only 19K on it and plan on going to a dyno April 23rd where I could dyno the car with the 19K Mile OEM wires, then swap the Granatelli wires on and see what happens.

 

That would be very appreciated. If possible let the shop owner know the reason and they might be onboard with you getting a couple pulls with each.

1 pull/change/1 pull leaves room for variance IMO...nearly every car I've ever seen on the dyno changed 2-5hp between pulls with no changes

 

Bocefus that is perfect, can you take a video of it, like full details, footage of engine bay with stockers and vice versa?

A dismantler and i were talking about this today (i work at LKQ) and we kind of agreed with this statement about ignition:

Say engine XXX came with 300HP stock, you run stock or "non-performance" wires and coils and the engine emits 280HP as is, now you replace said ignition with some good aftermarket performance coils and wires and it lets the engine put out its natural 300HP, i wouldnt call that a "gain" per say, more like the engine is payin out an IOU 20 HP and here it is. i know that might sound stupid to some but it makes sense to myself and alot of other gear heads around my work. To me a "Gain" is like adding a S/C, you started with a 280HP max and added 150HP which would be a 130HP "gain" for engine XXX, maybe this is "common automotive sense" but i thought it was a better way to explain the "gain" in power from GMS wires, IF they prove to "bring" that power "back".

 

Yeah, I can bring a camara and take some pics and vids. I get 3 pulls for $50 so I figure 2 stock pulls and the 3rd pull having the wire swap would take care of variance.

 

Awesome man.. Make sure you post the vid and results in this thread

 

I would like to see the results but in order for the comparsion to be fair you would have to test the Granatelli wires against new OEM wires, although your wires only have 19k on them, they are still 12 year old wires.