ChocoTaco369

again, you'd be wrong.

there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too ).

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

how am i wrong?

ample supply = lower prices.

you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices

explain why you said that

Bad Blue WS6

iTrader: (41)

ultraz

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, there is no reasoning with hard-headed people. Choco is a moron.

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

See my post in the dyno section. I am by no means a dyno queen type, just wanted to see what it did for me. Like I said, performance-wise, I see no superiority in the QTP's, but I'm speaking from bolt ons or cam/bolt ons. Heads, spray, blowers, strokers all make it a totally different ball game. I live where rust isn't an issue but still bought stainless just because I think it was worth the extra $200.
I really didn't want to spend $330 for a QTP aluminized Y pipe, but I will end up replacing my cut to fit Pacesetter Y as I know it has to be hindering some. I'd love true duals over the axle, but that's getting expensive.

02NBMWS6

iTrader: (22)

just read this again and laughed even harder the second time. i also just realized that your QTP's still arent even on your car yet

im leaving now to go to a concert, but i will be looking forward to your explanation of supply and demand when i get back

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

+1

I want to see a direct header swap on a bolt on car on the same day. Its not that hard to change headers so dont give me the "it takes 2 weeks to install headers" thing.

Bad Blue WS6

iTrader: (41)

me too. I know if i call QTP,,they will probably tell me that they have done it, and here's the graphs,,,,but really wanted to see if someone had doen the same,,,,more of a un-biased determination.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

I mean, theres no doubt that the HVMC does work, but at what point. I believe that Kooks has said on here that it doesnt make a big enough difference (1-3HP) to warrent the price unless you have nothing else to spend money on. I think thats when QTP first started using them.

NC98Z

iTrader: (1)

I've got the supermaxx dynatech system on mine and it is top quaility, tucks tighter to the car than SLPs which hang kinda low and are too close to the oil pan bolt. They have thick flanges and I've never had a leak. They too are all stainless, cats, ypipe and all. After a year they still look like new, no rust anywhere. But I never see any other f bodies running them besides me. However I know a lot of Vette people that wouldn't run anything else. The company makes some high hp gain claims like the rest of them do but I would like to know how they stack up with the Stainless works headers, Kooks or QTPs.

EarlSS

The big thing here is Qtp does the hvmc and there header is still cheaper than kooks. If kooks knows they work why dont they offer them to there costumers. Kooks are alot higher anyways so it looks like they would put the hvmc on since there already more expesive. Thats the main reason i just ordered me some Qtp's....better header cheaper price. Cant beat that.

Hard Core Z28

Did anyone happen to see this post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/700678-results-qtp-hvmc-vs-pacesetters.html
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak

I dont know how much more proof you guys need.

Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.

68birdls1

iTrader: (46)

cant really argue with that lol

But I know everyone will be saying how that is on a head and cam car and bla bla bla, to everyone who wanted to see the proof, there it is. Yea it's not a stock car, but if your doing headers, then I am pretty sure you are going to do something more right?!?

ChocoTaco369

what? when the hell did i say that? i said prices are going up now because STAINLESS STEEL IS GETTING MORE EXPENSIVE.

we have already reached the peak of competition. competition has lowered prices as much as it has. the market was flooded a year ago. today, it's just as flooded. this means supply and demand is pretty static. however, the price of stainless IS NOT STATIC. it went through the roof on the commodities exchange. THAT IS WHY KOOKS RAISED THEIR PRICE $100! THAT IS WHY A CORSA CATBACK IS RETAILING FOR NEARLY $1,000 NOW! BECAUSE STAINLESS STEEL WENT WAY UP IN PRICE!

ChocoTaco369

are you retarded, or are you really retarded?

explain to me why kooks and corsa jacked their prices up. their public reason was "the cost of stainless steel." go PM George R. from kooks and ask him why the AIR/EGR version of his headers are retailing over $900 now. see what his reasoning for the recent price increase was.

competition is no longer affecting the market. it's lowered prices as much as it can. the price of stainless is increasing too fast, so prices are going up.

so in short, what i said was this:

5 years ago when there were 2 companies making stainless steel headers, the price was high for them. however, more companies came around, so due to competition, the price fell. however, the market became flooded with many choices for stainless headers, and because of the flood of products, the price was pushed down as far as it will go. since stainless steel has increased so much in price, it is increasing faster than competition can lower prices. therefore, the cost of stainless headers will rise in the future.

once a market is FLOODED, more competition isn't going to affect prices as much. competition vs. price drops IS NOT linear. for a guy with a business degree (or so says the internet warrior), you suck at econ. and reading.

ChocoTaco369

that's what happens with Speed Inc. has your parts on backorder for 32 days. when you can't get parts, you kinda can't install them.

ChocoTaco369

thank you for pulling this thread. this is the EXACT thread i was talking about. i couldn't find it because search is so screwed up.

so there is proof you need. what do you know, ~30 rwtq @ ~3100 rpms, just like i said from a simple header swap alone.

QTP w/HVMC >> *

thanks for understanding basic economics, too. we have people in here that claim to to have degrees in business, yet they don't understand microeconomics 101. the nice thing about arguing behind a keyboard is you can say you have a degree in anything you want. i have a degree in astrophysics, electrical engineering and journalism, don't you know?

when the cost of raw materials increase at a faster rate than competition can drop prices, you have a price increase. since the market is flooded, prices will likely continue to rise unless raw materials stop climbing so quickly. pretty basic. this is why kooks and corsa jacked their prices. it's not hard to understand.

ultraz

iTrader: (4)

But u just said in ur other post that there is no shortage of stainless steel headers. Stainless steel aftermarket headers are anchored for a niche market. Whether the price of stainless steel goes up or down, it will affect stainless steel pricing. However, it does not affect companies trying to achieve a competitive advantage through pricing. If only 1 or 2 companies were making stainless steel headers for ls1's, the price would be MUCH MUCH higher.

you seem to believe everything you read on the internet.......... Maybe you should look into electronic turbos on ebay.......... according to your 13 second timeslip.......... u need them.

ChocoTaco369

exactly. there is no shortage of stainless headers, so that mean that prices will not increase because of supply and demand. they will increase because of other reasons - in this case, they are increasing due to increased cost of raw materials, the point i've been trying to make since the first post.

yes, this is true. however, the ENTIRE AFTERMARKET for cars is a niche market! WE on ls1tech are a niche market. 99% of people out there who buy cars leave them stock.

that is my point! INITIALLY, prices fell because more companies emerged to make stainless headers. headers are cheaper now than they were 5 years ago, but 5 years from now, they will be more expensive. THAT is my point. just because they're cheaper now doesn't mean they will be even cheaper 5 years from now. get me now?

i don't **** away my money on stupid ****. i'll direct you to this thread if you want to see a boatload of guys in debt over their car:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-lsx-automobile-discussion/741523-how-bad-debt-you-over-your-car.html

what kind of car did you have when you were 20? i don't have a faster car because I DON'T WANT a faster car. if i wanted to **** away all my money on something stupid, i could easily have a H/C/N2O car running 10's. however, i have a head on my shoulders with a brain in it, and i spend my money wisely.

i believe things i learn in life. your *** is just sore because you found out i've been right this entire time and you've been arguing over nothing. how's it feel?

i even have my own JPG for guys like you:



you can thank the guys at SSU for that one

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

I guess my dyno numbers just weren't accurate enough. Mine were real world, no tricks used. As to the HVMC, they come on the QTP's and I paid $690 shipped. That won't buy any Kooks or other said names without HVMC's. They obviously don't hurt performance. Those numbers were on a heads/cam/9090 intake car, not what I'd call "bolt on" only car.