Do the QTP Headers REALLY make more HP
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by 02NBMWS6
whats wrong with his statement is that it goes 100% against the law of supply and demand. unless he's saying that headers for LS1s are so special and unique that they arent governed by such laws..lol
now the gas companies, that might be another story
now the gas companies, that might be another story
there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too
).
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
again, you'd be wrong.
there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too ).
there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too
).ample supply = lower prices.
you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices
explain why you said that
Originally Posted by 02NBMWS6
how am i wrong?
ample supply = lower prices.
you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices
explain why you said that
ample supply = lower prices.
you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices
explain why you said that
See my post in the dyno section. I am by no means a dyno queen type, just wanted to see what it did for me. Like I said, performance-wise, I see no superiority in the QTP's, but I'm speaking from bolt ons or cam/bolt ons. Heads, spray, blowers, strokers all make it a totally different ball game. I live where rust isn't an issue but still bought stainless just because I think it was worth the extra $200.
I really didn't want to spend $330 for a QTP aluminized Y pipe, but I will end up replacing my cut to fit Pacesetter Y as I know it has to be hindering some. I'd love true duals over the axle, but that's getting expensive.
I really didn't want to spend $330 for a QTP aluminized Y pipe, but I will end up replacing my cut to fit Pacesetter Y as I know it has to be hindering some. I'd love true duals over the axle, but that's getting expensive.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
again, you'd be wrong.
there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too ).
there is ample supply. you can get any header pretty quickly. the supply is there, there is no shortage. all we have is way more competition with not much more demand. that's why headers are cheaper now. you've apparently never taken a grade school reading comprehension class (i can do it, too
).
im leaving now to go to a concert, but i will be looking forward to your explanation of supply and demand when i get back
Originally Posted by Blakbird24
The problem with this argument is that there is no proof of SIGNIFICANT and REPEATABLE gains with one LT set over another. Yeah under certain conditions and on certain cars, certain headers make more power. But I can't justify spending more on a set of headers when all it can promise me is a name. Perhaps it would make more power, but maybe not. Even if it did, i'd be likely looking at 5hp. Not worth it.
If I bought QTPs, i'd have paid $300 more than I paid for my top quality stainless headers, and i'd be crossing my fingers on dyno day hoping that I didn't waste that money. Not my idea of a wise purchase.
If I bought QTPs, i'd have paid $300 more than I paid for my top quality stainless headers, and i'd be crossing my fingers on dyno day hoping that I didn't waste that money. Not my idea of a wise purchase.
I want to see a direct header swap on a bolt on car on the same day. Its not that hard to change headers so dont give me the "it takes 2 weeks to install headers" thing.
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From: Germantown Hills IL
me too. I know if i call QTP,,they will probably tell me that they have done it, and here's the graphs,,,,but really wanted to see if someone had doen the same,,,,more of a un-biased determination. 
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Verdad Gallardo I mean, theres no doubt that the HVMC does work, but at what point. I believe that Kooks has said on here that it doesnt make a big enough difference (1-3HP) to warrent the price unless you have nothing else to spend money on. I think thats when QTP first started using them.
I've got the supermaxx dynatech system on mine and it is top quaility, tucks tighter to the car than SLPs which hang kinda low and are too close to the oil pan bolt. They have thick flanges and I've never had a leak. They too are all stainless, cats, ypipe and all. After a year they still look like new, no rust anywhere. But I never see any other f bodies running them besides me. However I know a lot of Vette people that wouldn't run anything else. The company makes some high hp gain claims like the rest of them do but I would like to know how they stack up with the Stainless works headers, Kooks or QTPs.
Last edited by NC98Z; Jul 13, 2007 at 05:10 PM. Reason: fix
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From: Burkesville,Kentucky
The big thing here is Qtp does the hvmc and there header is still cheaper than kooks. If kooks knows they work why dont they offer them to there costumers. Kooks are alot higher anyways so it looks like they would put the hvmc on since there already more expesive. Thats the main reason i just ordered me some Qtp's....better header cheaper price. Cant beat that.
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From: Over Here and Over There
Did anyone happen to see this post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/700678-results-qtp-hvmc-vs-pacesetters.html
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/700678-results-qtp-hvmc-vs-pacesetters.html
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
Originally Posted by Hard Core Z28
Did anyone happen to see this post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700678
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700678
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
cant really argue with that lolBut I know everyone will be saying how that is on a head and cam car and bla bla bla, to everyone who wanted to see the proof, there it is. Yea it's not a stock car, but if your doing headers, then I am pretty sure you are going to do something more right?!?
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by 02NBMWS6
how am i wrong?
ample supply = lower prices.
you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices
explain why you said that
ample supply = lower prices.
you tried to say: ample supply = higher prices
explain why you said that
we have already reached the peak of competition. competition has lowered prices as much as it has. the market was flooded a year ago. today, it's just as flooded. this means supply and demand is pretty static. however, the price of stainless IS NOT STATIC. it went through the roof on the commodities exchange. THAT IS WHY KOOKS RAISED THEIR PRICE $100! THAT IS WHY A CORSA CATBACK IS RETAILING FOR NEARLY $1,000 NOW! BECAUSE STAINLESS STEEL WENT WAY UP IN PRICE!
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by ultraz
Yeah, there is no reasoning with hard-headed people. Choco is a moron.
explain to me why kooks and corsa jacked their prices up. their public reason was "the cost of stainless steel." go PM George R. from kooks and ask him why the AIR/EGR version of his headers are retailing over $900 now. see what his reasoning for the recent price increase was.
competition is no longer affecting the market. it's lowered prices as much as it can. the price of stainless is increasing too fast, so prices are going up.
so in short, what i said was this:
5 years ago when there were 2 companies making stainless steel headers, the price was high for them. however, more companies came around, so due to competition, the price fell. however, the market became flooded with many choices for stainless headers, and because of the flood of products, the price was pushed down as far as it will go. since stainless steel has increased so much in price, it is increasing faster than competition can lower prices. therefore, the cost of stainless headers will rise in the future.
once a market is FLOODED, more competition isn't going to affect prices as much. competition vs. price drops IS NOT linear. for a guy with a business degree (or so says the internet warrior), you suck at econ. and reading.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by 02NBMWS6
just read this again and laughed even harder the second time. i also just realized that your QTP's still arent even on your car yet
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by Hard Core Z28
Did anyone happen to see this post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700678
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700678
It shows gains.
3100 it is 18 hp and 30 ft lbs
8 hp 6 ft-lbs peak
I dont know how much more proof you guys need.
Also regarding pricing of the header. yes there is more headers available then ever. Does that mean prices will go down. In a perferct world yes. But prices for raw material, stainless steel and carbon steel has gone up alot. So for companies to lower prices just because there are more choices means they would loose money. I do not think they are in business to loose money.
so there is proof you need. what do you know, ~30 rwtq @ ~3100 rpms, just like i said from a simple header swap alone.
QTP w/HVMC >> *
thanks for understanding basic economics, too. we have people in here that claim to to have degrees in business, yet they don't understand microeconomics 101. the nice thing about arguing behind a keyboard is you can say you have a degree in anything you want. i have a degree in astrophysics, electrical engineering and journalism, don't you know?
when the cost of raw materials increase at a faster rate than competition can drop prices, you have a price increase. since the market is flooded, prices will likely continue to rise unless raw materials stop climbing so quickly. pretty basic. this is why kooks and corsa jacked their prices. it's not hard to understand.
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369
that's what happens with Speed Inc. has your parts on backorder for 32 days. when you can't get parts, you kinda can't install them.
But u just said in ur other post that there is no shortage of stainless steel headers. Stainless steel aftermarket headers are anchored for a niche market. Whether the price of stainless steel goes up or down, it will affect stainless steel pricing. However, it does not affect companies trying to achieve a competitive advantage through pricing. If only 1 or 2 companies were making stainless steel headers for ls1's, the price would be MUCH MUCH higher.
you seem to believe everything you read on the internet.......... Maybe you should look into electronic turbos on ebay.......... according to your 13 second timeslip.......... u need them.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by ultraz
But u just said in ur other post that there is no shortage of stainless steel headers.
Originally Posted by ultraz
Stainless steel aftermarket headers are anchored for a niche market.
Originally Posted by ultraz
Whether the price of stainless steel goes up or down, it will affect stainless steel pricing. However, it does not affect companies trying to achieve a competitive advantage through pricing. If only 1 or 2 companies were making stainless steel headers for ls1's, the price would be MUCH MUCH higher.
Originally Posted by ultraz
you seem to believe everything you read on the internet.......... Maybe you should look into electronic turbos on ebay.......... according to your 13 second timeslip.......... u need them.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-lsx-automobile-discussion/741523-how-bad-debt-you-over-your-car.html
what kind of car did you have when you were 20? i don't have a faster car because I DON'T WANT a faster car. if i wanted to **** away all my money on something stupid, i could easily have a H/C/N2O car running 10's. however, i have a head on my shoulders with a brain in it, and i spend my money wisely.
i believe things i learn in life. your *** is just sore because you found out i've been right this entire time and you've been arguing over nothing. how's it feel?
i even have my own JPG for guys like you:
you can thank the guys at SSU for that one
I guess my dyno numbers just weren't accurate enough. Mine were real world, no tricks used. As to the HVMC, they come on the QTP's and I paid $690 shipped. That won't buy any Kooks or other said names without HVMC's. They obviously don't hurt performance. Those numbers were on a heads/cam/9090 intake car, not what I'd call "bolt on" only car.