Best low end torque cam for LS1..
Thread Starter
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: North Little Rock, Arkansas
Originally Posted by DWillTA
Here is some threads I ran into while searching. You may have seen these, but if not hope they help.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/79019-224-224-565-565-110lsa-106icl-comp-xe-dyno-graph.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/72972-224-224-110lsa-106icl-cam-dyno-results-very-happy.html
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/79019-224-224-565-565-110lsa-106icl-comp-xe-dyno-graph.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/72972-224-224-110lsa-106icl-cam-dyno-results-very-happy.html
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.
Originally Posted by DWillTA
Here is some threads I ran into while searching. You may have seen these, but if not hope they help.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79019
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72972
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96215
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79019
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72972
These were posts orignally by dailyaluminumblock. He goes by a new name now. The links to the dyno graph are dead. Hopefully he can chime in and repost it up. From what I read that cam made 380 ft lbs of torque at about 2800 rpms.
I'd also like to see the dyno graph.
Originally Posted by SSCoulter
If you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread please resist the urge to type something.
I realize there is no way for you to understand how a larger cam will feel, but I still think you wouldn't be dissapointed. Thread Starter
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: North Little Rock, Arkansas
Originally Posted by DMNSPD
Just being a smartass I realize there is no way for you to understand how a larger cam will feel, but I still think you wouldn't be dissapointed.
I realize there is no way for you to understand how a larger cam will feel, but I still think you wouldn't be dissapointed.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,216
Likes: 236
From: Wichita KS / Rancho San Diego
It's not LS1, but the principle applies ... I run the same cam in both of my 69 GTO's - 220/230@.050, 110LSA & 106 ICL with factory "Ram Air" manifolds. Lumpy idle, gobs of torque down low, great around town, and will pull way beyond where stock Pontiac rods should go.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by Redneck Z
I have the comp 216/220 114 cam, still waiting to be put in. How well do you guys think it would fit the criteria?
If you are looking for a good street cam that will make good power under teh curve, give Eastside a call. The cam that Ken did for my car made a peak of 403 rwhp thru a 12 bolt with 4.10's and a steel driveshaft. The hp peaked at 403, but was at 400 from about 5700 to about 6500, and it pulls accordingly The tq was also good, over 350 from 3000 to 6200, peaked at 4900 at 387. I took it to the track, and even with my heavy race weight, the car ran consistant 12.4 to 12.5, best being a 12.39. Lopes nicely, idels perfect, etc. etc. and the gas mileage isn't a total nightmare either. the car feels like I gained alot everywhere in the rpm range, gears probably help the bottom end, but the dyno sheet says it gained from where the car was before. Car has headers, cats, stock maf, stock water pump, pulley, lid, LM catback.. no shortbelt of any other dyno tricks, on 93 pump gas.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine
Verdad Gallardo
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin
Verdad Gallardo
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
In general, any cam with 0 or less degrees of overlap @ .050 will pass with a good tune.
How to calculate:
(Int Dur + Exh Dur)/2 - (2 X lsa) = * of overlap
(these numbers at .050 lifts)
How to calculate:
(Int Dur + Exh Dur)/2 - (2 X lsa) = * of overlap
(these numbers at .050 lifts)
Also, would having zero or less degrees of overlap ruin the sound? If I were to do a cam, I'd like to get that nice loping sound, ya know! But still pass inspection..
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by Patrick G
Go back and read what I said about the Ausie cams. Shorter duration, narrower LSA. They make monster torque in the low to mid range while still pulling nicely above 6000 rpm. Too many on this board have tunnel vision or just follow the masses. There's a great big world of cam choices out there. While they may not put up "dyno queen" numbers, they'll plant a smile on your face every time.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
Do a search for the member Plan B. He's an Ausie and on top of his game. As a refresher, the cams they run tend to be in the 106-110LSA range. The duration runs from mild to wild with their cams. Knowing that you want big block torque down low and crisp driving manners, I still stand firm by the 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam. It will give you what you want. Choose your favorite cam grinder and have them whip one up.
A lot of lobe area with short duration, timing events that will result in a tighter LSA than most people would ever use...
Done all the time...
MEGA-TORQUE!
Ed
I have the old B1 and dynoed with a 12 bolt/steel shaft with #'s in the sig. I did a thought out combo on my car and on the street it pulls REAL hard all thru the range.I've had 2 track jaunts this year and the learning curve on launching should net me a mid 11 with the MPH I have.
Thread Starter
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: North Little Rock, Arkansas
Alan at Futral recomended the 221\224-114 cam. I told him what I was looking for and what bolt-on's I would have and this is the cam he came up with. I don't understand in light of what we have learned in this thread how he could recomend a cam on a 114? I understand the 221/224 part, just not the 114. I would like to think he knows what he's talking about but why would that be better than the 224/224 on a 112 at least? Why not a 220/224 on a 110? Anyone?
Thread Starter
Launching!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: North Little Rock, Arkansas
Originally Posted by glennster
I have the old B1 and dynoed with a 12 bolt/steel shaft with #'s in the sig. I did a thought out combo on my car and on the street it pulls REAL hard all thru the range.I've had 2 track jaunts this year and the learning curve on launching should net me a mid 11 with the MPH I have.
Can you post the dyno sheet?
Here is my last dyno sheet, mods where all the free one's plus LM. Bone stock otherwise. No lid, and before my gears. I would love to keep that kind of torque curve only have it in the 360-385 range at 3,000rpm's.
Last edited by SSCoulter; Jun 2, 2005 at 11:09 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
You basically won't get nice lope and pass a sniffer.
Basically a cam with a negative degree of overlap at .050 will pass with good tuning.
for exemple:
214/220 on a 110+0 that is a (217-220)= -3* overlap at .050 and it will pass.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
Yes you can. But the durations will be small by modders standards nowadays.
Basically a cam with a negative degree of overlap at .050 will pass with good tuning.
for exemple:
214/220 on a 110+0 that is a (217-220)= -3* overlap at .050 and it will pass.
Basically a cam with a negative degree of overlap at .050 will pass with good tuning.
for exemple:
214/220 on a 110+0 that is a (217-220)= -3* overlap at .050 and it will pass.
I suppose you could drop the idle pretty low, but still....
Well, I know it wouldn't lope enough for me.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
But how much will a 214/220 lope? It's 3* away from any overlap at .05....
I suppose you could drop the idle pretty low, but still....
Well, I know it wouldn't lope enough for me.
I suppose you could drop the idle pretty low, but still....
Well, I know it wouldn't lope enough for me.
It will lope enough to make any challenger think twice
Another thing you want to take a hard look at is selecting a cam that raises your dynamic compression up above 8.0 to 1. Stock DCR is 6.977 to 1. Be carefull exceeding 8.5 to 1 because you start running lots of cylinder pressure and higher octane than 93 begins to matter. The 216/220 110LSA 110ICL cam has a DCR of 8.18 to 1. With an intake closing point of 38 degrees ABDC, it would make peak power below 6000 rpm. Probably more like 5800-5900. If you advance this cam 4 degrees (106ICL), the dynamic compression would be 8.42. Wow, that's a lot of cylinder pressure and hella torque. Only problem is, you'd run out of breath pretty quick with an intake valve closing point of 34 dgrees ADBC. Power peak would probably be around 5500 rpm, costing you 10-20 rwhp at 6000 rpm compared to the same cam on a 110 intake centerline.
As a comparison, the Futral recommended cam 221/224 114 would have the following DCRs and power peaks:
221/224 114LSA (+0) 7.79 DCR, 6300 peak hp
221/224 114LSA (+2) 7.93 DCR, 6200 peak hp
221/224 114LSA (+4) 8.06 DCR, 6100 peak hp
As a comparison, the Futral recommended cam 221/224 114 would have the following DCRs and power peaks:
221/224 114LSA (+0) 7.79 DCR, 6300 peak hp
221/224 114LSA (+2) 7.93 DCR, 6200 peak hp
221/224 114LSA (+4) 8.06 DCR, 6100 peak hp
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.