Hello all! My first post on this forum believe it or not. I've been reading a lot here lately. I really like the down to earth straight talk over here. I know this topic has been beaten to death and I'd find more info than I could possibly read if I did a search... but here goes anyway.

Okay, so what would you say about this combo for "the ultimate street car" with an occaisional romp at the track (road course and drag). I know everyone's opinions will always vary but I figure I'll ask. I've decided to do all the engine work myself so I'm beginning to accumulate the parts. I want my car to have a noticable lope but want the A/C to work sitting at a stoplight. I want to spread the power throughout the range as much as possible. Too much torque down low - I'll have no traction. Too much power up high - I'll lose the great feel of torque down low. I want a great sounding car that is well suited to spirited driving without going to extremes. In other words, it needs to be street driveable without being too radical to enjoy off the track. It's not a daily driver. Take a look at my sig below. Many of you are familiar with my car.

The bold parts are what I'm adding. I can't decide who's heads to buy. I was leaning toward ARE but he (Nick) never calls me like he says he will. Maybe I'll have to track him down on the phone myself. Some have suggested CNC because of their consistant porting techniques. I know I'll have to take a look at a specific heads/cam combos depending on who's heads I buy. I can live without the hotcam, maybe a similar grind that gives me what I'm looking for. I'll leave it to concensus.

(Whose?) Stage 2 heads
GMPP Hotcam?
LS6 intake w/EGR
ASP crank & alt pulleys
SLP LT headers w/cats (already installed)

What would you estimate my hp/tq and 1/4 mile to be with this setup considering my other mods?

The rest is in this sig:
Vehicle Specifications: 2000 Camaro SS, M6, T-tops, Hurst Shifter, Ebony Leather, Monsoon CD, Power Seats... (she's loaded!)

SLP Options: SLP Performance Exhaust w/Cutout, Auburn High Torque Differential w/AAM Cast Aluminum Cover, Bilstein Ultra Performance

Suspension, Synthetic Lubes, SS Car Cover, SS Key Fobs, SS Dash Plaque and SS Embroidered Floormats

Exterior & Interior Enhancements: Custom Racing Stripes, Chrome Hood Scoop Grille, Wings West Front Grille, SLP Center Quad Exhaust, Power Antenna, Chrome Hurst Short-Throw Shifter, Chrome Shift ****, Billet Pedals, Torch Red Seat Inserts and Z06 Style Gauge Cluster

Engine Modifications: SLP Tuned Length Long-Tube Headers & 3" Y-pipe w/Random Tech Cats, Direct Flow Air Lid w/K&N Filter, T-body Bypass, SLP Cold Air Kit, HPP3 Programming, MAFT, SLP 160* T-stat, Taylor Wires, NGK TR-55 Plugs and GM Fuel Rail Covers

Suspension & Drivetrain Upgrades: Hotchkis Strut Tower Brace, SLP Subframe Connectors, BMR Adjustable Panhard Bar, BMR Lower Control Arms, BMR Torque Arm, Chrome ZR1 Style Wheels: 17x9 Front & 17x11 Rear, BFG g-force T/A KD tires, KVR Cross-Drilled Zinc Plated Rotors and Painted Calipers with my Camaro decals.

Thanks! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> Let me know if I'm forgetting anything.

 

If you want to go cheap, but make good power go with Izzo's guy, they are called RGR heads with 2.02/1.57 valves...they are $1700

Or if you want to spend a lot just go with ARE's..

The cam I have is a custom ground comp cam

222/222 .563/.563 112lsa

I made 360rwhp and 350rwtq, with no custom tuning, except for a rasied rev limiter, I took it up to 6300 on the dyno and it was still climbing...

There are so many good combos making good power, I still have stock heads <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

GTP heads, Thunder 224 cam. Thats what ya want. Thank me later <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" border="0" alt="[angel]" />

BTW, thunder racing sells both of those items and I doubt you'll find a shop with better customer service than them....

 

I'm beginning to think it won't matter what or who's heads/cam I pick - anything I do will make improvements over what I have now. However, I don't want to waste money or end up with a car that is a pain in the ****.

Cheap is good but not my motivation. I want reliability. I want to be able to stomp on the gas and not worry about something breaking all the time. I want A/C in the summer. I want a lopey cam sound. I want a good torque curve. I'd like to pass or come close to passing emmisions. Did I mention that I wanted reliability? I want springs that won't break. I want driveabilty. I want a naturally aspirated engine.

I don't need a drag monster that'll dominate the track. I don't want broken timing chains or rearends. I don't do 2500 rpm drag launches on stickies.

I just want a killer street machine that'll do straight line or twisties, still get decent mileage and hook up at a stoplight...

Know what I mean? <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

[quote]Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>GTP heads, Thunder 224 cam. Thats what ya want. Thank me later <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" border="0" alt="[angel]" />

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Please explain why I want this setup. Thanks.

 

The thunder 224 cam has been known to make great power, and mine on a 114lsa drives perfect. I daily drive my car and of the 5 cams I've had this thunder 224 has been the best thus far. Not too big, not too small.

As for the heads, you probably cant go wrong with whoever you go with, but ARE has issues with lead times and attention to detail. They just seem too busy right now with work. MTI is pricey and proven. ..but, recently, some really mean cars have come out with GTP heads. On the LT1, GTP heads proved themselves pretty well, and it seems they've figured the ls1 out now too. I've had IRS and ARE heads, if I were to buy a 3rd set of heads, I'd give GTP a try.

 

Stock pushrods okay? I've read that it's better to leave a weaker pushrod as insurance against breaking other things that are more expensive.

So you suggest...

Thunder Racing Stage 2 heads, Thunder 224/224 .561/.561 112 lsa cam?

Anyone else agree on that recommendation or have something to add or suggest?

How much of a difference in lope is there between the same cam but with a 114 lsa?

Sorry, I know there's more to it than sound alone but I'm still a novice and I love a lopey cam sound. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

 

BTW jmX,

I plan on using your website info on heads/cam swap to help me with the work. Some people have really been helpful by taking the time to put some of this stuff together for us other guys to use as reference. Thanks for putting that together.

 

I'm very happy with my setup: T1 cam, RGR heads. I do have some drivability issues below say 1600-1700 rpm with the tighter LSA of the T1. Car will surge a little. I don't know how long of a wait there is for the heads though. I ordered in February last year and got them in May. I got to run the A/C for a couple weeks later in the summer and didn't have any issues with overheating. I went with Trick Flow CM pushrods because I have better springs than stock. I've had the 941 springs on the heads from the beginning and haven't had any break.

 

I would look at ARE S2 or MTI S2 heads.
A 112 LSA cam can pass emissions, but a 114 improves the probability of passing emissions. A 220/220 114 cam would have good lower midrange. ARE likes a 226/226 114 with their set-up which would make nice power to 6500 rpm. I'd worry less about low end torque, just shift gears or get 3.73s/4.10s to round out the package.

 

Who's going to install it Mark?

You want a big lope or little lope?

You want a 'hey come get some lope' or a 'park it in front of Mystique' lope? <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

 

[quote]Originally posted by Pro Stock John:
<strong>Who's going to install it Mark?

You want a big lope or little lope?

You want a 'hey come get some lope' or a 'park it in front of Mystique' lope? <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Me and my buddy Andy (Xsta Z28) are going to do the work once it starts to warm up a bit around here. He's built a few small block Chevy engines so he's tool savvy. I'm learning.

I'm not sure I know about your lope question. I know too lopey makes for problems but I want it to sound COOL! Maybe more like a, "damn, that car is badass" lope.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Mark IXZD 150:
<strong>Sorry, I know there's more to it than sound alone but I'm still a novice and I love a lopey cam sound. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I can just tell you from my experiences:
218/224 on a 114lsa: no lope
230/230 on a 112lsa: bad *** lope, drove like ***
224/230 on a 114lsa: very mild lope, drove good
224/224 on a 114lsa: drives great, lope wasnt real noticable.

I say screw the lope, it gets old....drivability is what you want in a street car.

 

---GTP PERFORMANCE---713-266-1320

I look at the actual numbers the guy's are turning here in T-E-X-A-S and I have seen Craig's stuff up on the list on the Fastest N/A record holding H/C 10 sec passes for a while now..(fact)-his heads work and work good IMO..

<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

 

You haven't heard my car yet mark... <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

I got the cam installed later on in the summer and you were never at meadows...its lopey as hell and it makes awesome power...I got all upgraded valvetrain...when I do heads I will be going with RGR...and will be milling them to run 11:1 compression, unless I got blower plans... <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

<img src="graemlins/formula.gif" border="0" alt="[Pontiac]" />

 

[quote]I say screw the lope, it gets old.... drivability is what you want in a street car<hr></blockquote>

Ding Ding Ding! Man, we have something in common Jon. I'd never sacrifice drivability for just a tiny bit more power. Some guys actuall sacrifice power AND drivability by overcamming their motors. Yuck!

By the way, I like how you summarized shops so simply. MTI is very consistent and there are no unhappy MTI Stage 2 owners out there that I know of so far, but yes they do have a longer waiting period than other shops. This insures quality control and no rush-jobs to meet demand. And, yes they are on the more expensive side of things, but you can be sure you are getting what you pay for. Oh yeah, and they are warranteed too.

I also like Ragtop's reply. I think you are looking for a cam with the B1's characteristics.

Tony

 

So concesus so far pushes towards the 114, huh?

What about GTP Stage 2 with a 224/224 .561/.561 112? Best of both worlds????

I don't want to sound like I'm not listening, I'm just trying to get the most out of my money and effort. Like I said, I'm not out to win 'em ll at the track. I seldom race. It's actually more of a show car that performs. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

 

Thanks everyone. Anyone else have anything to add?

I'm beginning to see the big picture here but I need more info (of course).

What about my last question?

 

Bob with the 30th T/A who was at meadows every once and a while had GTP's with a cam similar to mine making 399rwhp..

GTP offers good stuff
ARE offers good stuff

with the 224 cam you won't see much more HP out of it and it will be more radical...I would stick with the 222/222 you will make the same power and it will still lope nice with a 112lsa...it all depends on what you want...

 

with all the talk about GTP, where in the world did Chris Johnson go with his bably lift big duration cam that ran low 11's when no one else was there? you know, 20/20 boy? i have still been amazed at that motor and the power and trap speed he made. that was a combo that did not get enough attention i believe.