My Engine Committed Suicide Yesterday
05-26-2010, 01:57 AM
#241
This is my 93, does it count as a car? I have another one that looks like that too, but at least has all four wheels. If people think this car / my Formula has taken a long time to get running just wait another 5 years ish and you'll be seeing my 93 thread once again.
Yeah, as far as I know there's only a few more small things that I need to figure out and we should be good to go (I hope). I really appreciate all of the help so far with finding all of the little items I am missing and the tons of questions. My car would probably never run without all of the little things you've tracked down for me.
I actually think the front cover I have now won't work. I can throw a water pump on it tomorrow or so to see if it will clear, but I don't think it does from what I've read. Apparently, the VVT sensor sticks out too far and stops the water pump from reaching the block. I may end up needing an LS2 Corvette front cover instead, but that may just be easier since I am missing the sensor bracket, sensor, wiring, and that one bolt.
Thanks,
I am slowly getting there. At least collecting parts wise. I still haven't gotten to the hard part of putting it all together. I know I am going to need a ton of help with that. When I get put in an odd situation where I don't have the right tools I get creative. I couldn't unload the engine without something to put it on. It was either the giant red cooler with two rear wheels or the skateboard. I got a lot of really funny looks from my neighbors rolling that contraption down the street on my skateboard, but it worked and very well I might add. I'm sure you guys will be seeing much more of that skateboard and anchor rope through the garage once again, along with some other creative things.
I'm also keeping my eye on those NX nitrous solenoids you have for sale. I'm on a dry kick and may be updating the 5177 kit.
What's up with your car? Did you ever get the 396 setup finished? I remember seeing a thread a long long long time ago where it actually moved under it's own power.
I really wish this thread wasn't still going, but it is... almost 3 years later. I will be needing some help with that. Again, I've never actually put something together from start to finish. This is a huge project for me to take on. I'm sure I'll be sending you a PM or something when I get to putting this thing in. How do you like the clutch? How's the feel on it? Any chatter?
I really appreciate all of the help so far guys. I'll be needing quite a bit more soon so stick around.
Yeah, as far as I know there's only a few more small things that I need to figure out and we should be good to go (I hope). I really appreciate all of the help so far with finding all of the little items I am missing and the tons of questions. My car would probably never run without all of the little things you've tracked down for me.
I actually think the front cover I have now won't work. I can throw a water pump on it tomorrow or so to see if it will clear, but I don't think it does from what I've read. Apparently, the VVT sensor sticks out too far and stops the water pump from reaching the block. I may end up needing an LS2 Corvette front cover instead, but that may just be easier since I am missing the sensor bracket, sensor, wiring, and that one bolt.
I am slowly getting there. At least collecting parts wise. I still haven't gotten to the hard part of putting it all together. I know I am going to need a ton of help with that. When I get put in an odd situation where I don't have the right tools I get creative. I couldn't unload the engine without something to put it on. It was either the giant red cooler with two rear wheels or the skateboard. I got a lot of really funny looks from my neighbors rolling that contraption down the street on my skateboard, but it worked and very well I might add. I'm sure you guys will be seeing much more of that skateboard and anchor rope through the garage once again, along with some other creative things.
I'm also keeping my eye on those NX nitrous solenoids you have for sale. I'm on a dry kick and may be updating the 5177 kit.
What's up with your car? Did you ever get the 396 setup finished? I remember seeing a thread a long long long time ago where it actually moved under it's own power.
I really appreciate all of the help so far guys. I'll be needing quite a bit more soon so stick around.
05-26-2010, 08:21 AM
#244
Ah hah. I had figured that engine came with a water pump. The truck spacing is farther out, but these covers are also used on the L99 Camaros which also has the same rough spacing as the trucks too lol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have some of the LS2 covers floating around here, so let me know what you find out and I can get it done.
05-29-2010, 01:19 PM
#245
I have a bunch of things to update from the 26th onwards. I will get to it soon. Things have been a little hectic lately. Meanwhile:
Support the builds and get parts at a great price at the same time:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...parts-etc.html
Support the builds and get parts at a great price at the same time:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...parts-etc.html
05-30-2010, 03:33 AM
#246
On The Tree
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05-30-2010, 02:56 PM
#247
^ That's exactly what happened to mine. I am so sorry that you now have to deal with this. I've never heard of any other type of vehicle hydrolocking an engine on startup. I think part of it is what Ryan99ls1 touched on here:
Along with my reply:
Good luck with the rebuild. I'd search around in the parts for sale section and you should be able to find somethings to get you back together.
for what its worth.. i kinda decided how your motor hydrolocked if you never got a definitive answer on how it happened. Ive followed the thread but not in depth so idk if anyone mentioned this as a common thing already.
I was washing my car the other day and after i got done drying it off i popped the hood to just wipe down the engine bay. Well as i was cleaning i noticed some water on my intake manifold.. figured it just dripped on it when i opened the hood but then then i actually went to wipe down the intake and you know what i saw?? A POOL OF WATER around the #7 injector. Im talking like that whole area around that injector was just a pool of water. The number 7 cylinder is directly underneath the cowl and the intake runners are perfect to channel any water that way. I flipped ****. i dried it up and with a rag and then took a heat gun on very very low to dry up any more water resting inbetween the injector and o-ring.
Now im sure other people have discovered this but i never read about it. i just got to thinking about the the few unlucky ls1's i hear of throwing rods on startup. Many blame it on a leaky injector most of the time and coincidentally on the #7 one too, which seems to be the area where yours threw a rod. I am convinced that the actual injectors in these was never leaky(in terms of fuel) but that the o-ring around the injector was worn down by water resting in that area, but then drying up once the motor warmed up and people never noticed it.. so over time that o-ring just wouldnt seal as well till eventually water started leaking through it. it all makes sense in your case because you said it was like a monsoon outside right before the motor went.
I was washing my car the other day and after i got done drying it off i popped the hood to just wipe down the engine bay. Well as i was cleaning i noticed some water on my intake manifold.. figured it just dripped on it when i opened the hood but then then i actually went to wipe down the intake and you know what i saw?? A POOL OF WATER around the #7 injector. Im talking like that whole area around that injector was just a pool of water. The number 7 cylinder is directly underneath the cowl and the intake runners are perfect to channel any water that way. I flipped ****. i dried it up and with a rag and then took a heat gun on very very low to dry up any more water resting inbetween the injector and o-ring.
Now im sure other people have discovered this but i never read about it. i just got to thinking about the the few unlucky ls1's i hear of throwing rods on startup. Many blame it on a leaky injector most of the time and coincidentally on the #7 one too, which seems to be the area where yours threw a rod. I am convinced that the actual injectors in these was never leaky(in terms of fuel) but that the o-ring around the injector was worn down by water resting in that area, but then drying up once the motor warmed up and people never noticed it.. so over time that o-ring just wouldnt seal as well till eventually water started leaking through it. it all makes sense in your case because you said it was like a monsoon outside right before the motor went.
^ I kind of touched on it here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/9714232-post109.html
I think it was honestly either water eventually eroding the injector O ring or the torn PCV hose. It could have been a combination of the two working together. The thing was that it went through a tropical storm and it rained for 2-3 days straight quite heavily. It's going to be garaged forever from now on, but I do feel for people who hydrolock their engines.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/9714232-post109.html
I think it was honestly either water eventually eroding the injector O ring or the torn PCV hose. It could have been a combination of the two working together. The thing was that it went through a tropical storm and it rained for 2-3 days straight quite heavily. It's going to be garaged forever from now on, but I do feel for people who hydrolock their engines.
05-30-2010, 07:22 PM
#248
Update time. I've been really busy with random health related issues lately and haven't had time to do anything. I am 100% healthy though which is nice to find out. Work on the car will begine tonight.
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That is exactly what I like to hear. I hope that it will hold what I am going to throw at it.
I definetly didn't put the jack on the oil pan. There will be no more changing my mind on this project. What I have now is what is going in the car. Although about a year ago a sponsor was running a deal for $4995 on ERL resleeved 427 short blocks. I almost considered buying one, but didn't have the money.
John,
It didn't come with a water pump when I bought it. I have a few Fbody pumps laying around in the garage. I need to unwrap the engine and try to bolt one down to see if it will clear. From what I've seen on here, I don't think it will. Like you said the truck spacing is further out by right around .75 inches. I'll mess with it tonight and I'll let you know tomorrow.
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Wednesday the 26th:
I only received a couple parts on Wednesday. I received my Tick Performance adjustable master cylinder from SDPC and my Walbro 255lph twin in tank fuel pump setup from Speedtweekerz.
Tick Master:
Twin Walbro 255lph Assembly:
Thursday the 27th:
Thursday was a very fruitful day in that I received probably the single most important part towards getting my project rolling again, another part I'm excited about, and ordered a ton of things. The most important thing I got in the mail was my new BCM from John at SDPC. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the one thing I need to start working on my car. Now, that I have it and some free time work shall commence tonight.
BCM!
I started working on ordering somethings and the UPS guy came by to drop off a box. I met him at the door and found a semi destroyed / half opened box. He dropped it off and of course left even though I asked him to stay for a moment. I checked the label and it was my BLS HID headlight kit. I'm thinking, "Great, my super expensive headlights just got destroyed by UPS."
Here's the BLS box once I got it inside:
I checked everything out there and nothing seemed to be broken. Brian from BLS packaged everything extremely well. I have to say that if it wasn't packaged as well at least half of the contents inside wouldn't have survived.
Here is a crappy picture of the pieces of the BLS kit:
After I checked all of that stuff out and was amazed nothing was damaged I went back to tracking down all of the interior parts I need and ordered another small fortune in parts. I gave Speed Inc. a real quick call about their Pro 5.0 and short stick combo. For anyone that wants to know their short shifter stick is 6 inches long compared to the OEM 8-5/8ths. I then ordered one online, and received an email saying they are out of stock, but will ship shortly. I told them that was fine as I have to assemble a whole car first.
After that I ordered a shift **** from product innovations that looks like this:
Followed by a new shift boot from Redline Goods. I ordered a short shifter boot in black carbon fiber vinyl and a new metal shift boot ring to hold it in. I shouldn't ever need another plastic shifter clip or boot again. I then got a PM from them on here saying they need a couple shifter measurements to make it how I want it. Unfortunately, I don't have the new shifter (or any at all) to give them measurements off of so I am going to have to wait until the Pro 5.0 and short stick comes in from Speed Inc.
I then searched around with google shopping and found by far the cheapest prices I could on new gauges. I ended up going with the Autometer Cobalt digital gauges:
http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugesi...?sid=69&opId=7
I haven't seen anyone on here with them and I like the black outside ring versus the normal chrome one. I ordered three gauges and three carbon fiber mounting cups. I was wanting to modify a dash mount for a newer Dodge Dakota, but ended up going with these gauge cups:
http://www.autometer.com/cat_mountsd...=49&mid=8&pg=0
I am planning on mounting them right in the middle of the dash angled towards the driver. I mocked it up with some 2-5/8ths gauges I have for my 93 and I like the look. In hindsight I had a better mounting, and cheaper idea, but I already ordered everything so I may just keep them. Once everything gets here I'll post pictures of how I plan on mounting them.
I also ordered an innovative motorsporst LC1 wideband and DB gauge for a price shipped better than you can buy it direct again, with google shopping. I think it will match the cobalt digital gauges pretty well.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/db.php
Probably the most important thing I ordered were the tools to degree a camshaft and do some other measurements from Jegs. Hopefully, with everything I ordered, my Kent Moore J tool kit, and current tools I should have everything I need to assemble this engine. I can also send Patrick G some measurements and he can continue to help me out with everything.
In the parts for sale section I found a set of Ebony A pillars and door panel inserts that I sent members money for. I also found a dash board and dash pad that I'm just waiting to here a shipped total from. I am going to start working on taking some measurements, test fitting the water, pump, and repinning the harness tonight.
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I definetly didn't put the jack on the oil pan. There will be no more changing my mind on this project. What I have now is what is going in the car. Although about a year ago a sponsor was running a deal for $4995 on ERL resleeved 427 short blocks. I almost considered buying one, but didn't have the money.
Ah hah. I had figured that engine came with a water pump. The truck spacing is farther out, but these covers are also used on the L99 Camaros which also has the same rough spacing as the trucks too lol. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I have some of the LS2 covers floating around here, so let me know what you find out and I can get it done.
It didn't come with a water pump when I bought it. I have a few Fbody pumps laying around in the garage. I need to unwrap the engine and try to bolt one down to see if it will clear. From what I've seen on here, I don't think it will. Like you said the truck spacing is further out by right around .75 inches. I'll mess with it tonight and I'll let you know tomorrow.
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Wednesday the 26th:
I only received a couple parts on Wednesday. I received my Tick Performance adjustable master cylinder from SDPC and my Walbro 255lph twin in tank fuel pump setup from Speedtweekerz.
Tick Master:
Twin Walbro 255lph Assembly:
Thursday the 27th:
Thursday was a very fruitful day in that I received probably the single most important part towards getting my project rolling again, another part I'm excited about, and ordered a ton of things. The most important thing I got in the mail was my new BCM from John at SDPC. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the one thing I need to start working on my car. Now, that I have it and some free time work shall commence tonight.
BCM!
I started working on ordering somethings and the UPS guy came by to drop off a box. I met him at the door and found a semi destroyed / half opened box. He dropped it off and of course left even though I asked him to stay for a moment. I checked the label and it was my BLS HID headlight kit. I'm thinking, "Great, my super expensive headlights just got destroyed by UPS."
Here's the BLS box once I got it inside:
I checked everything out there and nothing seemed to be broken. Brian from BLS packaged everything extremely well. I have to say that if it wasn't packaged as well at least half of the contents inside wouldn't have survived.
Here is a crappy picture of the pieces of the BLS kit:
After I checked all of that stuff out and was amazed nothing was damaged I went back to tracking down all of the interior parts I need and ordered another small fortune in parts. I gave Speed Inc. a real quick call about their Pro 5.0 and short stick combo. For anyone that wants to know their short shifter stick is 6 inches long compared to the OEM 8-5/8ths. I then ordered one online, and received an email saying they are out of stock, but will ship shortly. I told them that was fine as I have to assemble a whole car first.
After that I ordered a shift **** from product innovations that looks like this:
Followed by a new shift boot from Redline Goods. I ordered a short shifter boot in black carbon fiber vinyl and a new metal shift boot ring to hold it in. I shouldn't ever need another plastic shifter clip or boot again. I then got a PM from them on here saying they need a couple shifter measurements to make it how I want it. Unfortunately, I don't have the new shifter (or any at all) to give them measurements off of so I am going to have to wait until the Pro 5.0 and short stick comes in from Speed Inc.
I then searched around with google shopping and found by far the cheapest prices I could on new gauges. I ended up going with the Autometer Cobalt digital gauges:
http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugesi...?sid=69&opId=7
I haven't seen anyone on here with them and I like the black outside ring versus the normal chrome one. I ordered three gauges and three carbon fiber mounting cups. I was wanting to modify a dash mount for a newer Dodge Dakota, but ended up going with these gauge cups:
http://www.autometer.com/cat_mountsd...=49&mid=8&pg=0
I am planning on mounting them right in the middle of the dash angled towards the driver. I mocked it up with some 2-5/8ths gauges I have for my 93 and I like the look. In hindsight I had a better mounting, and cheaper idea, but I already ordered everything so I may just keep them. Once everything gets here I'll post pictures of how I plan on mounting them.
I also ordered an innovative motorsporst LC1 wideband and DB gauge for a price shipped better than you can buy it direct again, with google shopping. I think it will match the cobalt digital gauges pretty well.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/db.php
Probably the most important thing I ordered were the tools to degree a camshaft and do some other measurements from Jegs. Hopefully, with everything I ordered, my Kent Moore J tool kit, and current tools I should have everything I need to assemble this engine. I can also send Patrick G some measurements and he can continue to help me out with everything.
In the parts for sale section I found a set of Ebony A pillars and door panel inserts that I sent members money for. I also found a dash board and dash pad that I'm just waiting to here a shipped total from. I am going to start working on taking some measurements, test fitting the water, pump, and repinning the harness tonight.
05-30-2010, 07:56 PM
#249
I like the twin in tank setup for turbo cars. I had one in my 86 grand national. 2nd pump came on at 10 psi via hobbs switch. It also had a little light that I had run into the dash that would turn on when the 2nd pump was active. I wasn't taking any chances after a fuel pump quit under full boost/full throttle and cost me a motor. (I am a proud member of the "drove over the crankshaft" club).
05-30-2010, 08:09 PM
#250
I like the twin in tank setup for turbo cars. I had one in my 86 grand national. 2nd pump came on at 10 psi via hobbs switch. It also had a little light that I had run into the dash that would turn on when the 2nd pump was active. I wasn't taking any chances after a fuel pump quit under full boost/full throttle and cost me a motor. (I am a proud member of the "drove over the crankshaft" club).
05-30-2010, 08:16 PM
#251
Installing the light is a pretty good idea. I may have to borrow that. One little LED could like you say save an engine. I'm still not sure how I am going to wire the second pump. I want it to come on when the dry nitrous setup is armed, but not sure what I need to tap into or how to wire it.
05-30-2010, 08:20 PM
#252
Please do use it! That's what I had, a large square single green LED light. When one of the pumps quit the single couldn't keep up. It went lean so fast that detonation got audible then sounded like a string of firecrackers under the hood. Engine grenaded before I could react. After a new short block and new pumps and that light, I knew if I didn't see green while racing the car, take the foot out right away. This was back in the mid 90's before everyone had widebands too.
EDIT: I just ordered a wideband, but even if I go to spray it, it goes mega lean, I may not be able to get out of the throttle quick enough.
05-30-2010, 11:12 PM
#253
Rookie mistake #1 = I'm an idiot.
I was planning on repinning my harness tonight, plugging in my new bcm, charging my battery, and having electricity. Not to be... All of the information I've gathered has been to install a 99+ pcm using a 98 engine harness. I no longer have a 98 engine harness, but a 99+ harness. ****! Instead of changing all of the pins in the red and blue connectors which I have the diagrams for I have to change the interconnects on the passenger side fender and where the wiring comes through the firewall on the same side. That would be fine if I had the information for that, but I don't.
I'm going to try and get in touch with Doc of EFI Alchemy tomorrow as I know he knows what I'll need to do here. I may end up selling this harnes, buying a cheaper 98 one, repinning, and having some extra money. We'll see, but either way I'm stuck waiting once again.
I was planning on repinning my harness tonight, plugging in my new bcm, charging my battery, and having electricity. Not to be... All of the information I've gathered has been to install a 99+ pcm using a 98 engine harness. I no longer have a 98 engine harness, but a 99+ harness. ****! Instead of changing all of the pins in the red and blue connectors which I have the diagrams for I have to change the interconnects on the passenger side fender and where the wiring comes through the firewall on the same side. That would be fine if I had the information for that, but I don't.
I'm going to try and get in touch with Doc of EFI Alchemy tomorrow as I know he knows what I'll need to do here. I may end up selling this harnes, buying a cheaper 98 one, repinning, and having some extra money. We'll see, but either way I'm stuck waiting once again.
06-01-2010, 05:12 PM
#256
Random, but why do you specifically need an LS2 / 3 block? I know there are differences in the main webbing construction, but does that affect your CNC program? I could get an LS1 block much cheaper and not have to deal with conversion wiring. Hint... Hint... Hint...
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A few more things arrived today which will actually allow me to do some sort of work towards getting the car running. I was pretty excited to work towards having electrical power again, but with my wiring snafu I haven't been able to do anything yet.
I received one 51lb box from Speed Inc. that is one bright orange engine stand:
I think the UPS guy must hate me or something for making him deliver all of these packages. Pretty much every package I've received from UPS has been beaten to ****. The past two were actually ripped partially open. Seeing this constant trend it makes me even more of a happy USPS customer.
Two thirds of my order from Jegs came in. I got the cam degree kit and the crank socket today. I am still waiting on one little dial bore extension, but I won't need that until I go to assemble the engine.
Sorry, I forgot to rotate this one.
The last thing I got in today was my new shift **** from product innovations. I like it although I am still on the fence on the size. I ordered the 3 inch hardbar although upon holding it I think I should have ordered the 4 inch one. My new shift stick is 2-5/8ths shorter along with a smaller shift **** it may be much more, "different / difficult" than I want. I'll just have to wait and see when I get everything put together. Here's mine:
Here is a comparison shot from Product Innovations:
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Now, that I have the dial bore gauge and stand I can measure the valve drop in my heads uninstalled. Then, measure it installed to see if any of the valve reliefs in my OEM L92 pistons match up with the valve location of my cathedral port heads. If they do it would supply me with some increased piston to valve clearance. I am going to try and get my engine unwrapped either tonight or tomorrow afternoon to get those measurements and test fit an fbody water pump over the VVT L92 front cover.
06-01-2010, 05:50 PM
#257
I'm also keeping my eye on those NX nitrous solenoids you have for sale. I'm on a dry kick and may be updating the 5177 kit.
What's up with your car? Did you ever get the 396 setup finished? I remember seeing a thread a long long long time ago where it actually moved under it's own power.
Tony.
06-01-2010, 06:05 PM
#258
I'm doing the same thing with parts. Selling old things to buy new stuff. If I can sell a few things I'll buy those nitrous solenoids off of you. I'd like to swap the 5177 to a dry direct port and again I'm same thing you are. At least you're making some progress on it. It shouldn't be too long then?
Good Luck,
Tyler
