Fastback302

2000 Trans Am Ram Air M6

On my daily driver with just an SLP LID and Smooth Bellow and cut out currently.

Question is I am going to install (maybe kooks) Long tubes after I sell the current SLP LONG TUBE SET I NEVER INSTALLED, and was wondering on a daily driver what would be a smarter cam choice a MS3 or a MS4.....by smarter I mean the car only has 40,000 miles and dont feel like rebuilding the motor do to being "on the edge" of safe! I know the safest route would be not to change it....but of course I want more power! What other supporting mods or actions would I have to do or take in order to acomplish a strong running motor that can be daily driven with minimal worries!

All I know is the only difference is the MS3 is a 608 intake lift with a 112 lobe
and the MS4 is a 649 intake lift with a 111 lobe! <-- I think I am right!

Would the MS3 be the safer choice and at what expense to horsepower.(how much less power would I make), or would power just be moved down the rpm band! And actually more enjoyable for the street! Or is the MS4 just and upgraded design compared to the MS3! And the reliability is the same?

Fastback302

bump

WFOWS6_IL

iTrader: (3)

My cam has a higher duration than the MS4 and more lift on the exhaust side. I've noticed driving in tight traffic can be a pain cause of the low vacuum. If I'm inching forward and consistently pushing the clutch in and braking, the car will drop idle. That and to take off I'm at higher RPMs than normal so the motor doesn't die. All and all, it's a little harder on parts IMO. Might not be the best for a DD, so the M3 would probably be the best.

I'm sure others will reply with more info.

99FBODY

iTrader: (8)

i have the ms3 and its not bad to drive in traffic if i have to but if i had to daily drive my car i would go with a smaller cam

Camaro396

iTrader: (14)

I drive mine with a ms4 untuned with no problems....

Z28/2002

iTrader: (27)

I daily drove a MS3/PRC headed TA and loved it

Fastback302

What should I expect to pay for someone to install the cam whichever I choose....I sure which I had some more opinions and personal experiences with this cam on stock heads! Am I gonna get more power out of the MS4 compared to the MS3 on stock heads or will my stockers not flow enough to take advantage of the extra lift! Should I be looking at even a smaller cam?????

CranMaro99

iTrader: (10)

On a side note, change your signature pic. It'll be deleted pretty soon

Fastback302

Do you mean because it is mustangs? I will get a TA pic up soon!

chewy99ws6

iTrader: (8)

I run the MS3 in my auto with a 3400 stall and it drives just fine, I ran the MS4 on a 110lsa in my M6, it ran really good but sucked in traffic like stated earlier, lots of bucking and surging at low rpm's, if those are you two main choices then I say the MS3. Hope this helps

john563

iTrader: (17)

No. there are alot of stang owners here. Its too big thats all he is saying

Camaro396

iTrader: (14)

Cam & Valvesprings is going to run you anywhere from 500-1000 depending on where your at and who does it. I personally would do it yourself. I did my MS4 cam swap myself when I was 18 with just basic knowledge of turning wrenchs. www.ls1howto.com has a great guide that is almost retard proof. On another note, a MS4, with supporting mods, like longtubes, cutout, FAST 90/90 set up, and a good tune, will make 400+ at the wheels no problem. I personally would go MS4. Go big or go home. Dont wanna have to do things twice! I have it with stock heads and the mods I listed above and expect 400+rwhp

LS1Silverado05

iTrader: (41)

St. Charles huh?... Do a little research on the cam install. Its not that bad at all if you have basic mechanical ability. Its alot worse in your mind than it is actually doing it.
I wont argue that MS3 and MS4 cams make great power. But I will argue that some other smaller cams will have alot better mid-range that could really come into play on the street. Cars with smaller cams beat cars with larger ones all the time. Bigger isnt always better. I personally run a 231/237 592 603 111.5 and I am very happy with it.

And no offense to Camaro396 , but I would NOT do like him and drive a cam un-tuned. Especially a large one like MS4.

5.3LJimmy

iTrader: (10)

If it's your daily driver I wouldn't go bigger than a mid to low 230's duration cam. For stock heads and M6 the TR230 kicks *** and is very drivable. To answer your question the MS3 will drive slightly better than the MS4, but both will have surging and bucking issues at low RPM. The MS4 will make power lower in the revs and peak a little sooner. The peak numbers will be close between the two, but the MS4 will have a little more bottom end.

rocksws6

iTrader: (4)

I wouldn't run a cam that big in a daily driver. I have a 231/233 on a 111 LSA and it kinda gets annoying every once in a while. Its not so bad to where I can't tolerate it but I wouldn't want to go any bigger on a DD and with the power band I got out of it it would be a waste to go bigger. I'll post up a link to my dyno sheet here in a sec.
Here ya go: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ht=patrick+cam

Reject

iTrader: (24)

those two cam choices are on top of the bad list for daily driving. i had the ms4 and swapped it like only 1500 miles into it to a smaller 226. drove that one for less than 2000 miles and swapped that in for a stock cam again (cuss of the turbo ) those donkey dick cams are worthless on the street. you loose all your low end grunt and have to give it more gas. choose a smaller cam for dailying. the more radical the cam the more upkeep you have to do to it, specially dailying it

m6speed

iTrader: (11)

shoot me a pm sometime and i'll help you put your cam in for free. just buy me some pizza

oh and as long as you tune the car decently you can dd it with an ms3/ms4 cam just fine

Doc

iTrader: (9)

Carefully consider the tune. 99% of the aforementioned drivability issues are related to a suck *** tune. Three pulls on the dyno and a pat on the head as you are escorted out the door are not going to cut it.

On the flip side of the coin, a properly tuned 224-228-230ish with ~.600" cam will give you plenty of the DD power you seek. Higher lift cams will increase the frequency of maintenance on the valve train.

Bigger is not always better, only you can answer what your ultimate goals are.

Camaro396

iTrader: (14)

I disagree with this statement. I did my MS4 swap about three weeks ago and have been Daily Driving the car since, Untuned- with a stock stall on top of that and have no problems other than trying to push through the brakes at stop lights, but thats a given with a stock stall until the new one goes in next week. The only thing you have to consider with these cams is letting them warm up before driving.

Reject

iTrader: (24)

sig says 4000 stal and 4.10 gears.... that factors into the DD deal.... throws the revs up high so you dont have to deal with the sloppy low end, where a street car spends 90 percent of the time