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Old 03-10-2018, 09:18 AM
  #61  
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Default Engine Start Method

Hi Jake, good news.
You as a "metal expert" have made some observations with respect to friction/metal heat.
Your reported "start" for a few seconds is BEST.

THE OLD STORY, to run a new engine, new rings, for 20 minutes at 2500RPM is the WORST POSSIBLE method.

The method that is used by engine professionals is to start (run) for 5 seconds/stop for 10 seconds/run for 10 seconds/let cool for 20 seconds, etc.

The time periods are thus doubled each run/stop sequence.
This will keep the rings cool keeping their temper.

There have been many pictures posted her showing BAD cylinder walls caused by metal transfer with improper engine run in procedure.

Lance
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:23 AM
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I appreciate that lance. That's actually what I did. I ran it for 20 seconds and killed it. Idle only. Ran it for a minute to 90 seconds. Killed it. Let it cool overnight.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:51 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Pantera EFI View Post
Hi Jake, good news.
You as a "metal expert" have made some observations with respect to friction/metal heat.
Your reported "start" for a few seconds is BEST.

THE OLD STORY, to run a new engine, new rings, for 20 minutes at 2500RPM is the WORST POSSIBLE method.

The method that is used by engine professionals is to start (run) for 5 seconds/stop for 10 seconds/run for 10 seconds/let cool for 20 seconds, etc.

The time periods are thus doubled each run/stop sequence.
This will keep the rings cool keeping their temper.

There have been many pictures posted her showing BAD cylinder walls caused by metal transfer with improper engine run in procedure.

Lance
Youíre right but thatís not good for the Old
Flat tappets
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Old 03-10-2018, 12:50 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Pantera EFI View Post
Hi Jake, good news.
You as a "metal expert" have made some observations with respect to friction/metal heat.
Your reported "start" for a few seconds is BEST.

THE OLD STORY, to run a new engine, new rings, for 20 minutes at 2500RPM is the WORST POSSIBLE method.

The method that is used by engine professionals is to start (run) for 5 seconds/stop for 10 seconds/run for 10 seconds/let cool for 20 seconds, etc.

The time periods are thus doubled each run/stop sequence.
This will keep the rings cool keeping their temper.

There have been many pictures posted her showing BAD cylinder walls caused by metal transfer with improper engine run in procedure.

Lance
Lance,
Very Interesting I have never seen that method before. How many cycles
would one do before going WOT on an engine dyno for example?
Dan
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Old 03-10-2018, 02:08 PM
  #65  
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I would like to know as well I'm almost done with my build as well
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:38 AM
  #66  
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I'm very interested to see this goes. I have a LS7 blocked 427 with TFS 235, built it since 2009.

I am having bottom end issues (some sort of knocking/scraping and can't keep turning crank w/ wrench). I have always wanted to try the LS7 heads so I bought some stock ones a few months ago. I was thinking of sending them to Reyer Morrison or AI. I thought I'd go with stock rockers and the Tony Mamo MSD intake.

Kind of on the fence about doing this or going with a 6.0 SBE twin turbo build.

Your build may sway me.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:22 AM
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I'm about 3-4 weeks away probably from getting my darton 454 running. TSP's advice was to start it and let it run for about 30 minutes at idle, so it gets up to temperature. Change the oil. Let it cool. Then drive it easy for 500 miles, almost like what the factory break in procedure is. Change the oil (at this point can go to a 10-40 oil instead of the 20-50 break in oil).

Granted my motor will be predominantly street use and about 1k miles per year. I could see a different procedure for something that's going straight to the dyno and will see a lot of track time.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:10 PM
  #68  
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Default Engine Start Proceedure

Hi Dan, thanks for the request.
Many engines I have dealt with ARE brought to FULL operation temperatures REQUIRED BEFORE starting.
THINK about friction BY "rubbing" your TWO hands together, too fast AND you WILL loose skin.
Then add some oil to your hands noting the difference, the reduction of friction and less heat.

The number of Cycles is GRADED by the "rise" in engine oil temperature vs operation time.

The "ready for dyno" at WOT is also graded in the same way by watching oil temperature when the engine is throttled.

John Drake ALWAYS allowed the engine to sit over night BEFORE any WOT runs on his bench dyno.

The SAME "tech" as Jake, the metal expert.

Lance
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantera EFI View Post
Hi Jake, good news.
You as a "metal expert" have made some observations with respect to friction/metal heat.
Your reported "start" for a few seconds is BEST.

THE OLD STORY, to run a new engine, new rings, for 20 minutes at 2500RPM is the WORST POSSIBLE method.

The method that is used by engine professionals is to start (run) for 5 seconds/stop for 10 seconds/run for 10 seconds/let cool for 20 seconds, etc.

The time periods are thus doubled each run/stop sequence.
This will keep the rings cool keeping their temper.

There have been many pictures posted her showing BAD cylinder walls caused by metal transfer with improper engine run in procedure.

Lance
I couldn't find any documentation supporting this. Can you provide any examples or links to others who are following this method? Or explain why the OEM's dont follow this method? I have a new motor I'm putting together and would like to understand this more.
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Old 03-11-2018, 02:29 PM
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Default Engine Start Procedure

Hi DD, NO I CAN NOT explain WHY OEM's DO NOT follow this procedure BECAUSE THIS IS their procedure.

Examples : Cosworth, Ilmor, Drake, Hart, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, KHI. Pantera EFI, Etc.

Lance
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Old 03-11-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pantera EFI View Post
Hi DD, NO I CAN NOT explain WHY OEM's DO NOT follow this procedure BECAUSE THIS IS their procedure.

Examples : Cosworth, Ilmor, Drake, Hart, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, KHI. Pantera EFI, Etc.

Lance
What I'm asking is if you're saying "Cosworth, Ilmor, Drake, Hart, McLaren, Ferrari, Honda, KHI. Pantera EFI, Etc." all follow this procedure, surely there is a post or document or thread or documentation or statement SOMEWHERE online stating this. I haven't been able to find ANYTHING. So I ask, can you share any documentation since you are saying those OEM's follow this procedure? How do you know? Surely you must have something tangible to share. I am truly interested and would love to read up on this.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:02 PM
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Guys, perhaps start a thread on this subject. I can contribute, as Iíve been involved in many high end builds, and nascar cup builds as well.
Letís not muck up Jacobs thread concerning this.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
Guys, perhaps start a thread on this subject. I can contribute, as Iíve been involved in many high end builds, and nascar cup builds as well.
Letís not muck up Jacobs thread concerning this.
Jacob is about sharing knowledge so I don't see the harm in a detour while waiting for an update.....but here we go:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...l#post19851638
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:30 PM
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Lol I was cool with it. I did want to post up - this bottom end had some miles on it. Maybe a couple thousand. So it was not a fresh break in Per se. I did inspect everything etc, so I treated it like new.
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:05 PM
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Here is the first start and warm idle tooning. It likes it lean. Idling about 15.5 on the WB. 925 RPM, decent amount of chop. Ended up needing more throttle blade, so it's back at 0.69V. But overall, for only spending about 2 hours on it, I'm pretty happy. I might play with it some (the motor you perverts) to try to get into the 850 range which will really sound rank, but for now, I'm leaving it.

All I need now is the steering gear and to run some vacuum lines, and I'll be set.

Really very happy with how well it started up. And it is responsive. I don't think the video does it justice just how quick it revs with throttle. Way more so than the 346, and that thing was quick off the throttle too.
Attached Files
File Type: mov
IdleTooning.MOV (4.39 MB, 123 views)
File Type: mov
FirstStart.MOV (4.02 MB, 78 views)
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:25 PM
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Popped right off. Great job man !!!
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:27 PM
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Thanks man. I mean I said it in the vid, but you'd have thought all I did was change the oil. Not the motor.
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:32 PM
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I heard it run before all y’all did. Express your jellies
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
I heard it run before all yíall did. Express your jellies
Of course i had to wake up to find the first start........ This thing is going to be quite the daily driver lol anything that he likely crosses wont want none
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lazerlemonta
Of course i had to wake up to find the first start........ This thing is going to be quite the daily driver lol anything that he likely crosses wont want none
Thanks! Thats where the ITB comes in. Idling at 600 rpm sounding like a Honda? OMG!!
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